Your opinion of police officers.

DragonClaw

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Also remember the stress that the Truck Driver was under from seeing the wreck, even if he wasn't directly involved in it; or was but wasn't the cause of it. What happens when the adrenaline wears off and he realizes he has chest pain from the stress?
In our area had a truck driver involved in a wreck with minor damage to his truck but the tractor needed to be towed because the metal was forced into the front tire, so he refused transport and waited for the heavy tow to show up. When they showed up they called 911 back because the driver was unresponsive. He was dead. Massive MI.
Wow. Just.. wow.
 

Remi

Forum Deputy Chief
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Also remember the stress that the Truck Driver was under from seeing the wreck, even if he wasn't directly involved in it; or was but wasn't the cause of it. What happens when the adrenaline wears off and he realizes he has chest pain from the stress?
In our area had a truck driver involved in a wreck with minor damage to his truck but the tractor needed to be towed because the metal was forced into the front tire, so he refused transport and waited for the heavy tow to show up. When they showed up they called 911 back because the driver was unresponsive. He was dead. Massive MI.
So everyone involved in an accident should be transported then? Just in case?
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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So everyone involved in an accident should be transported then? Just in case?
Apparently, even if they refuse to be transported.... take them kicking and screaming... even if they aren't complaining of anything at all, because there is a chance they might have a massive MI.... I think that is the lesson to be learned here.... :rolleyes:

oh, and @johnrsemt brought up a great point, "remember the stress that the Truck Driver was under from seeing the wreck, even if he wasn't directly involved in it;" so even those people who aren't diretly involved in the wreck, or get stressed simply form seeing the wreck, should be dragged to the ER for an evaluation. 😲😲 might need to work PD to pull over all the rubberneckers, yank them out of their cars and take them to the hospital because of the stress of seeing the crash.... :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

DragonClaw

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So then how do you balance the two? The ones that request to go get knocked out for their own good?

All jokes aside, for real. There's a lot we can't diagnose, only hospitals can, but there's a lot of "something" that looks like "Nothing".

But you can't realistically take everyone to the hospital, apparently?
 

CCCSD

Forum Lieutenant
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Also remember the stress that the Truck Driver was under from seeing the wreck, even if he wasn't directly involved in it; or was but wasn't the cause of it. What happens when the adrenaline wears off and he realizes he has chest pain from the stress?
In our area had a truck driver involved in a wreck with minor damage to his truck but the tractor needed to be towed because the metal was forced into the front tire, so he refused transport and waited for the heavy tow to show up. When they showed up they called 911 back because the driver was unresponsive. He was dead. Massive MI.

Hmmmm... I said similar, but got bashed for it. guess the cop side doesn’t know what they are talking about..?
 

Remi

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Hmmmm... I said similar, but got bashed for it. guess the cop side doesn’t know what they are talking about..?
Apparently you didn't read the replies to his comment.

We don't base practice on war stories that describe wild, unpredictable outliers.

Anyone - cop or EMT - who thinks that a person who is apparently uninjured and without complaint should go to the hospital "just to get checked out, just in case" because "when the adrenaline wears off, you never know what's going to happen" or because of "stress" has revealed, as is evidenced by that very opinion, a severe lack of clinical judgement.

Having been in an accident is not a medical emergency. Being shaken up or stressed is not a medical emergency. Understand that.
 

StCEMT

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So then how do you balance the two? The ones that request to go get knocked out for their own good?

All jokes aside, for real. There's a lot we can't diagnose, only hospitals can, but there's a lot of "something" that looks like "Nothing".

But you can't realistically take everyone to the hospital, apparently?
Urgent cares. Community hospitals. Free standing ED's. There are plenty of places suitable for transport by POV for the simpler traumas we see that don't need an ambulance. Maybe they have a nice cut on their arm that needs stitches or something, but is otherwise controlled. They don't need an ambulance. Going to the level 1/2 just means huge crowds of people. Tell them to go to these types of facilities who can give them the appropriate care without unnecessary ambulance bills etc.
 

Aprz

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Apparently you didn't read the replies to his comment.

We don't base practice on war stories that describe wild, unpredictable outliers.

Anyone - cop or EMT - who thinks that a person who is apparently uninjured and without complaint should go to the hospital "just to get checked out, just in case" because "when the adrenaline wears off, you never know what's going to happen" or because of "stress" has revealed, as is evidenced by that very opinion, a severe lack of clinical judgement.

Having been in an accident is not a medical emergency. Being shaken up or stressed is not a medical emergency. Understand that.
Preach it!

 

Tigger

Dodges Pucks
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Also remember the stress that the Truck Driver was under from seeing the wreck, even if he wasn't directly involved in it; or was but wasn't the cause of it. What happens when the adrenaline wears off and he realizes he has chest pain from the stress?
In our area had a truck driver involved in a wreck with minor damage to his truck but the tractor needed to be towed because the metal was forced into the front tire, so he refused transport and waited for the heavy tow to show up. When they showed up they called 911 back because the driver was unresponsive. He was dead. Massive MI.
Something something correlation is not causation.
 

DragonClaw

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Urgent cares. Community hospitals. Free standing ED's. There are plenty of places suitable for transport by POV for the simpler traumas we see that don't need an ambulance. Maybe they have a nice cut on their arm that needs stitches or something, but is otherwise controlled. They don't need an ambulance. Going to the level 1/2 just means huge crowds of people. Tell them to go to these types of facilities who can give them the appropriate care without unnecessary ambulance bills etc.
Ironically, now that I remember, we did a transport from an urgent care to the hospital. Not that I disagree with what you say, I just thought of it.
 

CCCSD

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Guess they now teach EMTs and Paragods magic diagnostics so much so they just KNOW who really needs to go to the hospital and who doesn’t.


(Slow golf clap...) :rolleyes:

Some of you out there really need to get a reset. But...that’s what lawsuits are for, thank God.
 

Remi

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Guess they now teach EMTs and Paragods magic diagnostics so much so they just KNOW who really needs to go to the hospital and who doesn’t.
Are you arguing that everyone who EMS ever encounters should be transported?
 

StCEMT

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Guess they now teach EMTs and Paragods magic diagnostics so much so they just KNOW who really needs to go to the hospital and who doesn’t.


(Slow golf clap...) :rolleyes:

Some of you out there really need to get a reset. But...that’s what lawsuits are for, thank God.
The idea that medics can't diagnose is ********. When I see massive elevation, in II/III/aVF and TWI in aVL I know it's a STEMI. When my patient feels like a wet noodle on their left side, I know it's a stroke. When the femur is pointing in a very incorrect manner, it is fractured.

We can diagnose. Maybe not "officially", but if I tell you any of the above have occurred you can be for sure that they have and follow it by a paper diagnosis with an MD's name on it confirming what I said.

Anything within the very large gray area that I can't give an answer for are what refusals, detailed explanation to patients, and thorough documentation are for just as much as suggesting they go if it's something that doesn't seem like a good idea to ignore. You know.....to prevent those lawsuits you mentioned.
 

Tigger

Dodges Pucks
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Guess they now teach EMTs and Paragods magic diagnostics so much so they just KNOW who really needs to go to the hospital and who doesn’t.


(Slow golf clap...) :rolleyes:

Some of you out there really need to get a reset. But...that’s what lawsuits are for, thank God.
Glad we have you, who appears to have not practiced medicine in literal decades, to tell us we can all get sued.

People call 911 all the time needing someone to help them make an informed decision regarding their healthcare needs. Sometimes, EMTs and Paramedics play this part. Telling every single patient that they should go by ambulance and that there are no other good options is not taking care of our patients. It's bad medicine. Times have changed.
 
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DragonClaw

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Well.... things turned out rather unexpected. But I'm still intrigued by the differing of opinions.
 

CCCSD

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It’s easy. There are quite a few in EMS who believe they know more than others...
 

DragonClaw

Forum Lieutenant
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Careful, DragonClaw. You're challenging the very essence of social media. :)
But.. objectively speaking, some people know more, and conversely, less. .... why is that as issue to accept? I'm not saying who's who. But.. in anything you do, that's how it is.
 

mgr22

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But.. objectively speaking, some people know more, and conversely, less. .... why is that as issue to accept? I'm not saying who's who. But.. in anything you do, that's how it is.
I was mostly kidding, but yes, you're right. I don't know why it's an issue.
 
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