Your Ideal Uniform

[TheLocalMedic]

I wore a jumpsuit for years at one job, and I just hated it, as did many of my coworkers. We felt that we looked like mechanics and if the fit wasn't just right they were extremely uncomfortable. We timed how long it took to get dressed in a jumpsuit as compared to a regular uniform, and there really wasn't much of a difference, so the whole "getting dressed quicker at night" argument was bunk.

 

[Talonrazor]

OP here.

We've looked at jumpsuits but since we are more of public enforcement agency, there is no need to do the whole "dress at night" thing. Biggest concern is uniforms that last, since we get into scuffles all the time here and I find normal EMS gear is ripping when subduing detainees.

I am in the middle of pushing us into a new era for the agency, going from the "contractor drunk tank guys" to a respected EMS/security agency of the Health & Human Services department. I want us to look sharp and professional. We also need uniforms that command sharp attention and are aggressive. Our agency picks up inebriates or drug-users from hotels, businesses, sidewalks, homeless shelters, etc to transport to the detention facility at the jail so something that will encourage cooperation is ideal.

I don't like the white shirts for supervisors at all. They look tacky and I personally, as commander, don't feel like constantly dealing with stains from blood or bodily fluids. Because of our work, we also don't have any identification visible anywhere on the uniforms. I do not want name badges anywhere.

We currently have duty t-shirts that are issued to personnel that are colored for each role. Black is for security/intakes/drivers, Dark Navy for EMTs, Grey for FTOs, and Deep Marine Blue for command staff (dispatch, commander, medical director). The shirts have the agency patch screen-printed on the front left chest and beneath it the position (EMT, FTO, Intake, etc). On the back is the agency name, screen printed, as well as star of life to designate medical personnel. The idea is easy identification by assisting agencies (LEOs, Fire, EMS, Military; which we also work with) so they know who is security, who are the medics, who are the front-line supervisors.

I am thinking the same concept for the 5.11s. Black for security officers, Dark Navy for EMTs, lighter blue shirt for supervisors.

I like the suggestions for the jackets. We really need to re-do our field jackets as we have currently issued Carharrts but being in Alaska, we need warmer gear that can also convert to summer wear.

Keep the input coming, very valuable....

 

[Miscusi]

have them all wear shirts ties and white lab coats...

ok ok... just kidding

about "Currently we use crappy Flying Cross and Propper uniform EMS Pants and duty shirts."

I LOVE MY FLYING CROSS uniform items ! they rock ! I just dont know why you dont like them, but anyway, my 2 cents

I like to think the FDNY has it right when they took away the police looking badges from NYC EMS.

Medical should look medical, and I think the standard FDNY look is very nice. I like the big patches that readily IDs who you are and what you do, and the dark standard uniform shirt and pants gives confidence to any patient.

Duty belts... i think duty belts are more for police than EMS. I have worn different types of walkies in the past, including the motorola saber and vertex standard... yes they are a bit heavy and is very good to have a belt, but maybe smaller agencies would prefer the smaller and lighter radios that can clip to the pants belt...

I have a firefighter radio strap and holster setup for my current radio, it really takes the weight off the pants. anything else goes into my tech bag.

A bit of fashion advice from a professional clothing person: empty the pockets, buldging pockets are ugly. i think hes right. pockets too full of stuff dont look professional at all.

well, besto f luch to ypu,

 

[NomadicMedic]

Uh, not for nothing, but aren't you just an EMT student with no experience? Why would you have a flying cross uniform shirt, radio strap or any occasion to use or carry a Vertex or Saber?

 

[DrParasite]

Biggest concern is uniforms that last, since we get into scuffles all the time here and I find normal EMS gear is ripping when subduing detainees.

fair enough. why not ask the local law enforcement what they use?

In my experience (as the city PD uses them for summer wear), 5.11 tactical polos work, you just need to get enough to handle when they get ripped during scuffles.

We also need uniforms that command sharp attention and are aggressive.

sounds like you want something that an PD ESU or SWAT unit would wear. might not go in line in an EMS look though.

I don't like the white shirts for supervisors at all. They look tacky and I personally, as commander, don't feel like constantly dealing with stains from blood or bodily fluids.

The reason supervisors wear white is that they typically are not getting dirty. They are usually off the road or office personnel, supervising the dirty work getting done instead of doing it themselves (think FDNY chiefs, police Lt, and other upper management people who sit behind a desk most of the day).

Because of our work, we also don't have any identification visible anywhere on the uniforms. I do not want name badges anywhere.

please explain.

I know many many police departments that have names on their patrol uniforms. Many states require names to be visible on the uniforms of EMS personnel.

As I said before, if you are a professional agency, doing what you are supposed to, you should have no problems putting your last name on a uniform shirt.

We currently have duty t-shirts that are issued to personnel that are colored for each role. Black is for security/intakes/drivers, Dark Navy for EMTs, Grey for FTOs, and Deep Marine Blue for command staff (dispatch, commander, medical director). The shirts have the agency patch screen-printed on the front left chest and beneath it the position (EMT, FTO, Intake, etc). On the back is the agency name, screen printed, as well as star of life to designate medical personnel. The idea is easy identification by assisting agencies (LEOs, Fire, EMS, Military; which we also work with) so they know who is security, who are the medics, who are the front-line supervisors.

I am thinking the same concept for the 5.11s. Black for security officers, Dark Navy for EMTs, lighter blue shirt for supervisors.

T-shirts are incredibly cheap, and incredibly comfy. a 5.11 polo might cost you $50 each, while a T-shirt can be $8 each. so if you are going through uniforms very quickly, you might want to stick with the t-shirts. But you will have to find a uniforms that works best for your agency type, and for what you will be doing (which sounds like isn't typical ambulance work).

btw, the Spiewak pants I mentioned earlier can't be over stuffed, so you won't have the bulging side pockets problem. I don't know if it's just how they are sewn, or how they are designed, but they look professional even if there are stuff in the pockets.

 

[EpiEMS]

White certainly makes blood exposure pretty obvious –:censored:and prevents, to some extent, personnel from tracking blood, fluids, etc. back home, if you make washer/dryers available at work.

 

[Talonrazor]

I am the lead commander at the agency with my own office and desk but I still am hands-on enough where I am getting dirty. If the floor (our detention facility/clinic) is rioting, it is an all-hands on deck incident. No one wants to wear white at all here and our city FD/EMS guys don't even wear white.

As for name badges, management has stipulated that we do not have identification. Our population can range from drunk college students to multiple-times felons ODing on heroin. We have constant threats and violent from repeated offenders. It is standard policy not to identify. Because all of our patients are detainees, they have been taken into protective custody as allowed by law through our agency by medical personnel, they are not the standard "this is your care provider" relationship.

If they request through management, we provide employee identification. Otherwise, IDs are kept off of uniforms. We are currently moving to an agency-issued SmartID that will be clipped to the uniform (our security personnel have to have licensed security IDs showing) but these are small enough and on the belts to prevent detainees from realizing what they are.

I know a lot of staff have been wanting polos and I myself wear agency-identified polos with khaki tactical pants to city meetings and the like. The concern is the durability and security of the polo. I like thicker, heavier uniforms. Some of my field EMTs wear body armor and the vests are hidden a lot easier via uniform shirts and job shirts. The T-Shirts are allowed for in-facility wear as well as summer time out on the vans during the day.

Local law enforcement wears Blauer gear, which I wore during my days with Air Force Security Forces and civilian police. I like Blauer StreetGear but they are designed with LEO in mind. The firearm features, massive duty belt construction, etc are not that suitable for what we do.

 

[Bullets]

So you are working in a detention center/prison? Where you have cross trained personnel?

Sounds like you need ripstop canvas fabric with double knees and elbows, long sleeves preferable, safety toes, at least a composite toe

Basically BDUs...I recommend the 2 pocket blouse for your kind of work, it tucks in to pants, leaving less to get grabbed or caught

The NJ EMS Task Force works with this type of uniform. BDU pants, navy T shirts screen printed on the back, navy crew neck sweatshirts with screen printing on the back, and a 4 pocket BDU with a large applied back patch. They work in all types of environments, that require lots of physical activity. If you are looking for something more durable then ripstop canvas, then you are looking at true extrication/bunker gear

 

[EpiEMS]

Hmm, maybe stuff from Crye Precision would do? Built in kneepads and elbow pads, and such.

 

[Talonrazor]

So you are working in a detention center/prison? Where you have cross trained personnel?

Sounds like you need ripstop canvas fabric with double knees and elbows, long sleeves preferable, safety toes, at least a composite toe

Basically BDUs...I recommend the 2 pocket blouse for your kind of work, it tucks in to pants, leaving less to get grabbed or caught

The NJ EMS Task Force works with this type of uniform. BDU pants, navy T shirts screen printed on the back, navy crew neck sweatshirts with screen printing on the back, and a 4 pocket BDU with a large applied back patch. They work in all types of environments, that require lots of physical activity. If you are looking for something more durable then ripstop canvas, then you are looking at true extrication/bunker gear

Basically, we are kinda like a homeless services police/ems task force. Kinda. We are tasked with enforcing Alaska Statue Title 47, which means we pick up individuals in public places that are intoxicated by alcohol, AMS due to drugs or generally AMS in public and is a danger to themselves or other people. This means we deal a lot with homeless people and due tons of wound care, monitoring chronically ill, etc. We can have in our detainment facility anywhere to a few dozen all the way to over sixty or seventy, all being monitored by one or two EMTs!

Our personnel are either EMTs, Intake Specialists that are trained as either EMRs or Security Officers (they act as drivers and work the intake section) or Command Staff. We have vans that patrol the city and respond to agency assists as well as citizen calls. The vans are Chevy Expresses with prisoner transport packages.

Our boots are always recommended black zip-ups with safety toes but personnel have to buy their own. Same with gloves, which we recommend as kevlar or carbon-fiber assault gloves. I am kinda wanting us to move to the BDU style, with the 5.11 PDU outfit.

 

[Veneficus]

Basically, we are kinda like a homeless services police/ems task force. Kinda. We are tasked with enforcing Alaska Statue Title 47, which means we pick up individuals in public places that are intoxicated by alcohol, AMS due to drugs or generally AMS in public and is a danger to themselves or other people. This means we deal a lot with homeless people and due tons of wound care, monitoring chronically ill, etc. We can have in our detainment facility anywhere to a few dozen all the way to over sixty or seventy, all being monitored by one or two EMTs!

Our personnel are either EMTs, Intake Specialists that are trained as either EMRs or Security Officers (they act as drivers and work the intake section) or Command Staff. We have vans that patrol the city and respond to agency assists as well as citizen calls. The vans are Chevy Expresses with prisoner transport packages.

Our boots are always recommended black zip-ups with safety toes but personnel have to buy their own. Same with gloves, which we recommend as kevlar or carbon-fiber assault gloves. I am kinda wanting us to move to the BDU style, with the 5.11 PDU outfit.

I am sorry, but could you explain this to me?

There is a law that creates a taskforce to go around and put homeless people in a containment facility?

I can't possibly have read that correctly?

 

[Talonrazor]

I am sorry, but could you explain this to me?

There is a law that creates a taskforce to go around and put homeless people in a containment facility?

I can't possibly have read that correctly?

No, the law says if you are intoxicated by alcohol or drugs you can be placed into protective custody by peace officers or emergency services patrol. It is a very standard "non-criminal behavior" patrol that picks up those who are dangerous to themselves or others.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/akstatutes/47/47.37./47.37.170.

Read subsection B. That is where we get our detainment authority from.

 

[d0nk3yk0n9]

I am sorry, but could you explain this to me?

There is a law that creates a taskforce to go around and put homeless people in a containment facility?

I can't possibly have read that correctly?

After having the same initial reaction as you, I went through the relevant sections of the laws and it looks like they are operating under a combination of Statute 47.37.230 and Statute 47.37.170 (parts of both quoted below). So they aren't specifically rounding up homeless people. They're rounding up drunks, most of whom happen to be homeless.

Cities and boroughs may establish emergency service patrols. An emergency service patrol consists of persons trained to give assistance in public places to persons who are intoxicated. Members of an emergency service patrol shall be capable of providing first aid in emergency situations and shall be capable of transporting intoxicated persons to their homes and to and from public treatment facilities.

A person who appears to be intoxicated in a public place and to be in need of help or a person who appears to be intoxicated in or upon licensed premises where intoxicating liquors are sold or consumed who refuses to leave upon being requested to leave by the owner, an employee, or a peace officer may be taken into protective custody and assisted by a peace officer or a member of the emergency service patrol to the person's home, an approved public treatment facility, an approved private treatment facility, or another appropriate health facility. If all of the preceding facilities, including the person's home, are determined to be unavailable, a person taken into protective custody and assisted under this subsection may be taken to a state or municipal detention facility in the area.

.

 

[Veneficus]

After having the same initial reaction as you, I went through the relevant sections of the laws and it looks like they are operating under a combination of Statute 47.37.230 and Statute 47.37.170 (parts of both quoted below). So they aren't specifically rounding up homeless people. They're rounding up drunks, most of whom happen to be homeless.



.

47.37.170 is a very fancy way to say "jail" for people under a number of circumstances.

How is that not rounding drunk homeless people to jail?

 

[hippocratical]

47.37.170 is a very fancy way to say "jail" for people under a number of circumstances.

How is that not rounding drunk homeless people to jail?

 

[rescue1]

47.37.170 is a very fancy way to say "jail" for people under a number of circumstances.

How is that not rounding drunk homeless people to jail?

Well, to be fair, this is Alaska, where the possibility of drunk homeless people freezing to death at night is higher then any other state in the union. Assuming they're given food, medical care, a place to stay, and can leave in the morning I don't see an issue with it.

It's no different then EMS having to take a drunk to the ER (since they can't refuse care) just because a well meaning citizen called it in.

 

[Veneficus]

Well, to be fair, this is Alaska, where the possibility of drunk homeless people freezing to death at night is higher then any other state in the union. Assuming they're given food, medical care, a place to stay, and can leave in the morning I don't see an issue with it.

That is the key phrase...

 

[Talonrazor]

That is the key phrase...

If you read the statue, we have detainment authority for 12 hours. The key here is due to the reading of the law, we deal a lot with people taking Spice, Bath Salts, etc and wandering around. Pretty much any AMS patient in the city that can't give a valid address to go anywhere or that doesn't need direct hospital support we get called for.

We are not jail. We are a step down from that level of detainment. We are located in the main city correctional facility but outside of Department of Corrections (which is actually a state agency that runs the city jail). In fact, most city jails HAVE what is called Non-Criminal Commitment which is a separate facility for non-criminal booking. Only monitoring people until they are sober/no longer AMS.

 

[EpiEMS]

If you read the statue, we have detainment authority for 12 hours. The key here is due to the reading of the law, we deal a lot with people taking Spice, Bath Salts, etc and wandering around.

Quick Spice and Bath Salts query: what sort of AMS do you see? Agitated delirium? If so, I think that you may want to consider more padding on your uniforms, or at least the option to add more PPE.

 

[Talonrazor]

Quick Spice and Bath Salts query: what sort of AMS do you see? Agitated delirium? If so, I think that you may want to consider more padding on your uniforms, or at least the option to add more PPE.

Excited delirium, yes. In fact, I just sent a guy to jail for a long time for assaulting me last night. Violence is ramping upwards in the city due to flooding of Spice and bath salts.

Currently we have plastic trauma masks, which are kinda like paintball masks that you can don quickly to cover your whole face. They help with protecting against facial blows. I am currently looking at trying to secure us padded (and cheaper) riot gear for dealing with aggressive patients on the main population floor.