Your calls and social media

DrParasite said:
Laws like that can be considered but would never pass. aside from the obvious freedom of the press violation, if a law like that were to pass, it would be an invitation for abuse by police.
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I didn't realize that the police needed an invitation to commit abuse. After all, there's an entire police department in So Cal right now trying to make the argument that beating a homeless man with schizophrenia to death at a bus stop is some how not excessive force. It doesn't help their case that the man's father is a retired deputy from the local sheriff department who used to teach restraint techniques.


Oh, and this isn't the first time this department has been implicated in abuse (the prior time was for someone videotaping an arrest too):

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiNOjG-xlPw[/YOUTUBE]

While I agree that the first man with the cell phone camera was too close, and could most likely be charged with interfering, the punch thrown by the officer at 1 minute in is completely inexcusable.
 
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As a filmmaker, whenever I am filming in a public space in a documentary type situation, I always carry a copy of this in my equipment cases.

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf


Usually, just by reciting these to whoever is questioning me, I end up being the more educated person in the argument and they leave me alone. Granted, even if you are legally allowed to film or photograph something, I ALWAYS take people's privacy and general decency into the equation.
 
If they don't get in the way it's not what I am paid to worry about.

Personally I have some issues with them violating privacy, perhaps, but that's also not for me to decide.
 
JPINFV said:
I didn't realize that the police needed an invitation to commit abuse. After all, there's an entire police department in So Cal right now trying to make the argument that beating a homeless man with schizophrenia to death at a bus stop is some how not excessive force. It doesn't help their case that the man's father is a retired deputy from the local sheriff department who used to teach restraint techniques.


Oh, and this isn't the first time this department has been implicated in abuse (the prior time was for someone videotaping an arrest too):

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiNOjG-xlPw[/YOUTUBE]

While I agree that the first man with the cell phone camera was too close, and could most likely be charged with interfering, the punch thrown by the officer at 1 minute in is completely inexcusable.
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Not speaking to this specific video, but people never seem to take into account the police officers position. A job where you are called to deal with violent people, all of whom are potentially armed with things from dirty needles, knives, up to guns -- people standing around encircling you adding to the mob and situation aren't very smiled upon.

Maybe I am wrong, and I accept that, but when it comes to jobs that involve dealing with imminent threats to yourself and others, I give those people large amounts of "wiggle room". Until you get stabbed in the back by someone you thought was a "bystander" it's difficult to understand why.

Yeah, that punch or push was probably uncalled for, but that guy is basically interfering. He's standing extra close, being pushy with his phone, and talking smack constantly.

You know what the number one thing said by people who are resisting arrest is? "I am not resisting!" -- as they kick and fight.
 
angrynuni said:
Not speaking to this specific video, but people never seem to take into account the police officers position. A job where you are called to deal with violent people, all of whom are potentially armed with things from dirty needles, knives, up to guns -- people standing around encircling you adding to the mob and situation aren't very smiled upon.

Maybe I am wrong, and I accept that, but when it comes to jobs that involve dealing with imminent threats to yourself and others, I give those people large amounts of "wiggle room". Until you get stabbed in the back by someone you thought was a "bystander" it's difficult to understand why.


Yeah, that punch or push was probably uncalled for, but that guy is basically interfering. He's standing extra close, being pushy with his phone, and talking smack constantly.
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1. Talking smack isn't illegal.

2. You can pick one. Either the punch was uncalled for or it wasn't. The problem is that there are 3 types of officers. Good officers (rare), bad officers (rare), and good officers who cover for bad officers (the majority, and are just as bad as the bad officers by enabling them).

I'm not arguing with moving him back. I wouldn't even argue against charging him with obstruction. However I have a really hard time accepting that the proper first action is to throw a punch or a shove like that and how that is anything but battery. You can't resist arrest until you're under arrest.

You know what the number one thing said by people who are resisting arrest is? "I am not resisting!" -- as they kick and fight.
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...and police will claim everyone is resisting, even if "resisting" is wiping their brow or twitching their leg (1) (there's a good video of Seattle PD doing this. Problem? The guy was innocent and released on scene). The problem is that the general public doesn't really care what the police do to the bad guys. However we get really uppity when they decide to treat the average citizen or someone with a mental disorder like a common criminal.

1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIJpxyUV5_g&t=0m25s
Cued up to the action (00:25 to 1:10). Pay attention to the language used by the officer at when it's cued up, and remember that these guys were released from the scene without any charges.
 
1. Doesn't look like I claimed it was

2. It if was a punch it was uncalled for. You can't tell from the video, all you see is the police officer get close and then the camera is waved around and the guy goes "whooaaaa" or something.

3. Didn't say anything to the tune of "there's no bad or misguided police officers"

The idea of my post is that even good police officers find themselves in tense as :censored::censored::censored::censored: situations. You're patrolling alone in the evening/night (very often these days with budget cuts), domestic dispute, you're outside with the suspect and slowly more and more neighbor friends appear. Yeah, you called for a second unit before you even arrived because the nature of domestic disputes, but they aren't there yet and there's about 10 people between you and your car and no matter which way you're facing someone is behind you.

People don't imagine the situations you find yourself in as a police officer. That's no excuse for abuse of authority, but you're just a person, if people push you when you're in a situation where you're potentially fighting for your life they shouldn't act surprised when you suddenly become aggressive.

As for police brutality, abuse of authority, or any other situation that capitalizes on the oath you take to protect and serve -- I am a supporter for prosecution and maximum sentences. It makes everyone look bad (involved or not), destroys trust in the community between police and public, hurts innocent citizens, and costs massive amounts of money poured into investigations and litigation.

About posting youtubes of police brutality though, for every one video you or someone posts of actual police brutality and abuse there's another 50 of a police officer performing their job to the expectations of the circumstances, and another thousand situations where the police officer(s) did the right thing, the right way, with the right people involved-- just no one thought it'd be worth posting.

Edit: To clarify, you receive (assuming you're not part of a podunk department) incredible amounts of initial training for those situations, and then continuous ongoing training, which cover everything social and psychological you can manage for what can end up happening. Assuming all the police officer in the first video did was push the man away, it's still well beyond uncalled for. Now, we don't know what was happening before the video camera was turned on. For all anyone knows he was told a dozen times to keep his distance, but even then that felt much more like a knee jerk rage reaction (which is something I'd expect 99% of the people who criticize police officers to do in the same situation) rather then an attempt to hold and detain.

In closing, I wish people believed in and followed the oaths they take as much as I do. A single act of abusive police is one too many. I would however ask people to refrain from quick and harsh judgement until they've walked down the same road, very few things are black and white.
 
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Ah.

:deadhorse:
In Calif., you can take pictures from a public place with a few reastrictions (such as someone saying "I don't want you taking my picture"). According to the local sheriff dept., recording peace officers in any manner to document their activities without their and the department's express permissionn is a misdemeanor. No citation for that (pun intended), but the root of that sort of stuff here was the intellgence gathering the Aryan Brotherhood and the Hell's Angels were carrying out on law enforcement through their associates outside prison.

I think photos of an injured person should also fall under HIPPA.

PS: see earlier thread about being "swarmed" (accident or other patients call in their posse to support them at an incident).
 
mycrofft said:
In Calif., you can take pictures from a public place with a few reastrictions (such as someone saying "I don't want you taking my picture").
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If you're out in a public area, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy. I'm free to film you if I please.

mycrofft said:
According to the local sheriff dept.
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Try not to get your legal advice from LEOs. Whether it's a misunderstanding of the law, or wishful thinking, they don't always give the best information. Contact your prosecutor's office, and the public defender's office, and see what they say.

mycrofft said:
recording peace officers in any manner to document their activities without their and the department's express permissionn is a misdemeanor. No citation for that (pun intended), but the root of that sort of stuff here was the intellgence gathering the Aryan Brotherhood and the Hell's Angels were carrying out on law enforcement through their associates outside prison.
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Public place = no reasonable expectation of privacy. I'm free to film.
If there was a law against this, all of the 'cop watch', open carriers that film, and random folks who catch a police officer in the view of their camera would be getting convicted left and right. Even the republic of khalifornia hasn't gotten that bad.


mycrofft said:
I think photos of an injured person should also fall under HIPPA.
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If it's a provider taking pictures of the person to show their friends? I agree.

However, if it's a random bystander snapping some pictures... aside from it being in very poor taste, I see nothing about it that should be illegal.


I'm not trying to attack you, mycrofft. I just don't want folks to get confused.

If anyone has any question to the legality of filming police/fire/ems in your area, give the public defender's office, and the prosecutor's office a call, and see what they say.
 
mycrofft said:
According to the local sheriff dept., recording peace officers in any manner to document their activities without their and the department's express permissionn is a misdemeanor. No citation for that (pun intended), but the root of that sort of stuff here was the intellgence gathering the Aryan Brotherhood and the Hell's Angels were carrying out on law enforcement through their associates outside prison.
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I'd love to get a citation for this as the wire tap law has been ruled not to cover situations that are reasonably overheard in public and I'd love, LOVE to see the media arrested under that. Furthermore, why aren't the people who taped the Fullerton 6 beating arrested?


I think photos of an injured person should also fall under HIPPA.
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Show me where HIPAA prevents non-health care providers to protect a patient's privacy? Heck, HIPAA doesn't even apply to all healthcare providers ("covered entities").
 
I will give my patients a heads up about media or camera being on scene if I see them. I give the option of having me cover them up with a sheet/blanket so the media can't see the patient. If I was in a car accident and there were cameras on scene I wouldn't want myself in the pictures so I offer that choice to patients.

It takes 10 seconds to ask "the news is here do you want me to cover you so no one can see you?" and then cover them. The news always likes the "breath taking" video of the patient being put into the back of the ambulance.
 
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