Would it be possible to work in another state if?

[John E]

Reading comprehension...

is so important.

The "prank" was sending the student into a room with a dead body in it. Nobody is condoning the abuse of the remains of anyone's loved one. Likewise, no one has claimed that this happens all the time or on any kind of regular basis.

The OP lost his or her job over this, they've been told, erroneously in my opinion, that they're going to be the subject of some sort of investigation by the state and they're no longer working in EMS. Just how much more punishment should they be expected to endure for asking a student to check the vital signs on a deceased patient? I'd rather work with the person who made one dumb move rather than the student who felt that this matter needed to be reported.

You folks doing all the condemning need to step way the :censored::censored::censored::censored: back and think about the punishment fitting the so-called "crime" that was committed here.

And in the meantime, get over yourselves, I dare say that none of you would have had the intestinal fortitude to come onto a public forum, admit that you made a mistake and ask for help/advice from a bunch of strangers.

John E

 

[medic417]

Just a quick google of "laws about abuse of corpse" produced tons but here is the first one. Really seems laws may have been violated thus criminal so certifications could be suspended.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2927.01

2927.01 Abuse of a corpse.
(A) No person, except as authorized by law, shall treat a human corpse in a way that the person knows would outrage reasonable family sensibilities.

( B ) No person, except as authorized by law, shall treat a human corpse in a way that would outrage reasonable community sensibilities.

(C) Whoever violates division (A) of this section is guilty of abuse of a corpse, a misdemeanor of the second degree. Whoever violates division ( B ) of this section is guilty of gross abuse of a corpse, a felony of the fifth degree.

 

[robbaN28]

EMS is a forgiving field? I wouldn't think so. If you make a mistake, it could cost a person their life. It's not like an software program where you can press "undo".

 

[Ocean711]

Just because someone played that prank on you does not mean it was right. I believe that EMS is the right field for some people and the wrong field for others. I think you should find another line of work because you obviously cannot think for yourself enough to say "I didn't like it when this was done to me, I probably shouldn't do it"

EMS is not forgiving because, as others have stated, this is serious work. What you do in this field, and healthcare in general, can seriously impact people's lives. It is a serious responsibility that should not be taken lightly. Patients need to be respected. This is not a game. Quite honestly, I'm glad your employers responded in the manner that they did. I also commend that EMT student who stood up to something that was not right and reported it. That takes more guts than following along with some stupid tradition just because someone did that to you.

 

[TransportJockey]

The EMS Field is also supposed to be a very forgiving field as well.

EMS is very not forgiving. We eat our young. This forum has shown that several times.

 

[Veneficus]

while I usually agree with many here

In this instance I do not agree this was a firing offence, much less worthy of an investigation.

What the OP did was absolutely wrong. It was unprofessional and certainly a breach of the privileged trust patients and family place in healthcare providers.

But let us look objectively at the breakdowns that led to this, because firing somebody doesn't mean it can't or won't happen again.

As both a teacher and a student, I have learned the value of having a designated clinical preceptor. This person demonstrates both their professionalism and their knowledge of the subject matter It assures the student is learning the proper habits and knowledge and not leaving it to chance.

A student should always be assigned to one person. Since a student is ultimately not responsible for their errors, there has to be a definate accountability. Not a circle which everyone points the finger at everyone else.

A student is not "the new guy." A student is a person who is paying for knowledge and practice. In addition to the economic payment, they are also giving of their time. You would never play a prank on a patient or a customer, you certainly should not involve students in any pranks.

The facility and the EMS educational facility are at fault for this event even occuring in the first place. This new EMT should have never had anykind of input on what a student was doing at all.

If the OP was employed in a unionized FD I would bet my last dollar that he never would have been fired fo this. A stern talking to, maybe even a letter in the employment file, but I doubt he even would have had a few days off. We cannot possibly condemn a non union employee for the exact same behavior that would result in less severe treatment by those in the union. It is clearly discrimination.

Before we get into abusing corpses, we must first establish whether or not there was an abuse, which is not detailed here. The student could merely have walked into the room and rightfully been upset at having been the victim of an improper prank.

In any state I have ever been in you are notified in writing by certified mail if there is an investigation against you. You have a right to a hearing and to be represented by council at such before judgement is passed. You are also notified of any limitation, suspension, or revocation in writing by certified mail. Falsely reporting to you that you are under or going to be investigated sounds dangerously like harassment. Especially if it causes you losses outside of that employment it may be subject to other criminal charges and civil damages. (defer to a qualified legal mind on that one, not me, I am just putting my opinion out there)

A second employer who suspends or disciplines you over a false allegation or heresay from another agency may also be violating law or your rights.

It sounds to me, you definately need some legal counicil above opinions on this forum.

It takes a lot of time and money to move to different states, obtain credentialling, and convincing somebody to hire you. Before you engage in all of that you need to find out what exactly your status is and was.

If you look at some of the infractions and the resolutions of many states, you find would be amazed at the type of behavior that is only minorly or moderately punished. Moral turptitude clauses are also very vague and subjective.

I am sure the OP realized that what he did was immature and certanly not acceptable behavior of a healthcare provider. If we fire everyone who ever makes a mistake, you will never have anyone left with any experience. Also there is a major issue with firing somebody for getting caught misbahaving and not firing people whom haven't had formal complaints against them for the same bahavior.

and no I have never been the subject of an investigation or dismissal.

 

[bstone]

8 years of being an EMT and also helping to teach a Basic class for a semester and I've never heard of anything like this.

I think it's time for you to find another profession. Please.

 

[subliminal1284]

You guys need to lay off, he made a mistake it happens. He doesnt deserved to be banished from EMS. No one was actually harmed from his bad decision so stop the holier than thou bs.

 

[MusicMedic]

well i do think it was a bit of a cruel "joke", if you really have your heart in this profession you should be able to get another shot

now what i think is: If the student couldnt handle looking or interacting with the dead body, how is he going to handle it out on the field? people code on us all the time, if he couldnt handle it in the hospital, he sure as hell couldnt handle it out on the field

im glad the student found out that this field isnt for him when he was a student, rather than a paid professional

 

[BLSBoy]

Who here had been taken aside at one point in time, and shown signs of death?
While his manner of doing it was wrong (hee hee hee, lets fcuk with the EMT students), what he did was something very necessary, and under taught.

As for the whiney student..... thats exactly what they are. Death happens in our field, and we get to see it all.
Getting upset, crying and whining about it will get you nowhere. What are they do to when they see their first death in the field?
Call mommy?

Seek legal council, as you probably have a very good case against your employer.

 

[medic417]

There are dignified ways that a student can be exposed to death. The cadaver is not there for the amusement of the emt.

 

[firetender]

My first day on the job in an Operating Room as a O.R. Tech.

As I wheel a patient on a gurney into the OR Suite, a voice comes from one of the other rooms. "Hey, get that new kid in here."

I release the patient to the nurse and hustle into the OR.

"Catch!"

I extend my arms and a leg, amputated AK flies into them.

"Thanks!" says the Surgeon.

That was just my first day there of many throughout 16 years of medicine where body parts, cadavers and other vital but dead organs were the subject of levity, pranks and what it seems many here would call abuse.

It's part of the culture. May not be pretty, but there it is. Enuff said.

As for our OP; he would be more than welcomed by me to any service of which I was a part because there are SO MANY THINGS that he will be hyperaware of in his dealings with both dead and live patients now (in part because of the wolves on this site!) he will most likely make the professional ethics of the stone-throwers here look like tar.

I would not begrudge any of you powerful lessons. We make mistakes and sometimes people die because of it. None of you are immune. Get off your high horses. The fall won't kill you.