Why we don't talk.

NomadicMedic

NomadicMedic

I know a guy who knows a guy.
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I think a lot of us don't talk about our problems or stress or suicidal thoughts because we've seen how disrespectful our EMS coworkers can be when they encounter the mentally ill. And we've all been in the facilities where xyprexa flows like water and the medicated zombies shamble from room to room. Scary to ever think about winding up there. After listening to an EMT make fun of a patient we just dropped off, I'm not sharing anything ...
 
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This is a big reason the Code Green Campaign is aiming to help break the stigma of speaking out
 
Yeah, but those thoughts and troubles are out there. We are the step children... So there are less resources for private EMS for us to deal with such things. It's a sad state of affairs.

Also, yes.... None of us want to be on the other end of that psych hold.
 
The US government puts all of its resources into the military, and for fear of political repercussions they put on the facade of being seen to care for former military veterans via the VA. The reality is <10% of the military are fighting/spearhead soldiers, much less are involved in combat, much less than that are involved in regular combat. The government and military campaign to be seen to helping those personnel has gathered so much publicity that everyone associates the military in general with the term 'PTSD'.

Flip that around- first responders within the US frequently are put in hazardous, stressful and traumatic situations on a daily basis- yet the same level of support is not there as for a large body/group of people who do not see/or are put in the same constant levels of stress or trauma. Politics...EMTs and Paramedics not getting a decent support system for these issues will never advance to the level the military has- even though in my opinion first responders require it MORE.
 
It's not stigma if it really is as bad as people claim it to be.

For example, especially if someone is a volunteer admitting to mental health issues could ruin multiple careers especially if the persons paid position is in law enforcement or has a security clearance.

This could then cause a vicious cycle of PTSD -> losing job -> depression etc.

No one has ever been able to give me a satisfactory answer as how to avoid this situation
 
A good friend of mine who had a series of bad calls called me one night and was in tears. He was afraid to talk to anyone because he didn't think he'd be able to ever get past any recorded instance of mental health treatment when he applied for a new job.

The calls were bad, but the fear of talking to anyone was worse.
 
Fortunately we do not have much of an issue here with staff denigrating the mentally ill. While it happens, most of our people are very, very good about being empathetic with mental health patients.

Nonetheless I still find it intimidating to talk to most of my coworkers who are veterans of the industry who have seen many worse things than I. Rather than leveraging their experiences, they seem more likely to provide "you think that's bad, back in 99 I had a patient who was twice as jacked up!" That stings. I understand there are worse experiences, but that isn't what we're talking about.

After having a recent and rough call that was bothering me a little bit I brought it up informally to see how it felt to talk about that. That part helped, being forced to defend how we treated the patient and the subsequent nitpicking was not.

I honestly find it more helpful to talk with non-EMS folk, I just don't like the idea of making them listen to what can be traumatic things, but they are less likely to judge.
 
I would never admit to weakness or a need for treatment. It would be career suicide.
 
The point I am trying to make is that in those situations is that losing a career for seeking treatment can lead to actual suicide just like the PTSD itself. It is a recognized psychological fact that especially for men their identity is tied more strongly to their career and losing the career can cause depression which is a major risk factor for suicide. It is a catch 22.

The progressions could be

Incident -> PTSD -> suicidal ideation

Or

Incident -> PTSD -> treatment -> deemed unfit for duty/ lose clearance-> depression -> suicidal ideation.

Notice the end result is the same. Or at the very least you get into a feedback loop where the depression begets more treatment which begets more depression because it would be harder to get your job back and so forth.

I would love for someone SAMHSA, NAMI, code green campaign to actually address this problem but they don't seem to care. For me the ideal solution would be that mental health treatment would not effect employment suitability in all but the most extreme circumstances. In those events, if a person is to be taken off the road they are to be reassigned to meaningful work with a treatment plan designed to get them back to full duty as soon as possible. If that is impossible they will be given the option of permanent reassignment or medical retirement just like for a physical injury

Some or most public services already do this, the private ones are much more of a wildcard.
 
gotshirtz001 said:
Still beats actual suicide.


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Suicide is a persons right to act and should be respected . As counsel, I highly advise against it, but tacit knowledge of the world has shown me that everyone has a breaking limit.
 
Because PTSD is an entirely subjective thing. So while you and a partner my be on the same call, you might have issues and your partner may not. So its hard to talk to each other when there is a decent chance the reply is going to be something like "It wasnt that bad, why are you upset about it"
 
Daniel G said:
Suicide is a persons right to act and should be respected . As counsel, I highly advise against it, but tacit knowledge of the world has shown me that everyone has a breaking limit.
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"Right to die" issues such as terminal illness and the like get all of my support.

Somebody killing themselves over EMS - whether PTSD or some notion that life is over if you are no longer fit to endure the abuse of an industry that does not care about you - is a hard pill for me to swallow. I am an advocate for education, understanding and investing in those who endure the suffering. To view this job as a calling, which without it life is not worth living, is a fool's move.

For every responder who commits suicide, I see that as an industry/culture failure to take care of those who needed it.

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Daniel G said:
What is this degrading of the mentally ill your speaking of??
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You've never worked with someone who, after transporting a psych patient, would say stupid, insensitive things like "God, that guy was a ****ing psycho. What kind of idiot would try to kill themselves over... [blah blah blah]"?

Must be nice...
 
RocketMedic said:
I would never admit to weakness or a need for treatment. It would be career suicide.
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Really? Have you seen people's careers suffer that much because they came forward about their issues?

I'm not challenging you, I'm still a student so I'm coming from a place of ignorance to the "real world" of EMS.
 
Reynolds One said:
Really? Have you seen people's careers suffer that much because they came forward about their issues?

I'm not challenging you, I'm still a student so I'm coming from a place of ignorance to the "real world" of EMS.
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There were medics who came forward in Canada and had their licenses pulled.
 
Reynolds One said:
Really? Have you seen people's careers suffer that much because they came forward about their issues?

I'm not challenging you, I'm still a student so I'm coming from a place of ignorance to the "real world" of EMS.
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Would you hire someone who admitted to PTSD or stress to the point of being unable to work?
 
RocketMedic said:
Would you hire someone who admitted to PTSD or stress to the point of being unable to work?
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If a person applied for a job, and it was known, or more accurately clinically shown, that the patient suffered from PTSD to the extent that they could not do the job, then no (assuming that that decision does not violate the American's with Disabilities Act).

But, are we talking about hiring someone with known, documented issues, or a current employee who comes forward?

If an employee, who otherwise is a good, productive employee who does his/her job, admits to their employer that the obvious, well known stresses of the job are creating problems for them, and that employer fires them...not only is that ridiculous, but that company may very well be violating law.

I'm not doubting it's happend, but I absolutely believe that in those cases, there had to be something more to it. I mean, think about a situation like that, if an employee was fired (after admitting to suffering psychologically and wanting treatment) and then went the legal route and sued for wrongful dismissal/termination. How could that company defend itself in the eyes of a jury (assuming it got that far), or the public for that matter? If you knew a company treated their people with that kind of callous disregard for the well-being of their employees, would you want to work for them?

I saw guys in the military who "silently suffered" - the keyword there being "suffered." I understand the fear of opening about these things, but I would never advise someone to NOT come forward.
 
That's the thing though. You assume that there need be a direct causal relationship. Truth is, in most states, you can be terminated for anything or nothing and the employer can find justification to separate employees. Yes, plenty of good companies take care of their people...but plenty more don't. And finding a job in this industry with that reputation is a greater challenge.
 
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