Why private industry has no business in EMS

[downunderwunda]

Gosh, I was hoping we'd get a little thanks for all of the free healthcare support we spread around the world. I tend to minimize comments made by people who have to vote or face being fined!

Its great you consider it the right thing to do to provide free healthcare in other countries, for foreign nationals in their country, yet your healthcare system does not see itself as a basic right for a first world country.

Well done.

 

[downunderwunda]

So the problem is that fire departments, third services, and private providers ALL bill the individuals. That's how the system is in America. I'm not sure it's the best system out there, but it's what we have. And, with what we have, I can't say that the government-run agencies do any better than the private agencies. The status quo is that all of the agencies, no matter if they are government or not, depend on revenue, and have to balance their budgets.

So a company that runs for profit, at the end of the financial year has a responsibility to their shareholders. These fine upstanding people have invested money in the company & expect a return on their investment from the maximised profits. Failure to return a profit sees the company go bankrupt & all the associated mess that goes along with that.

A government run service, that is free of the profitability shackle, that provides the same level of service to all people, does not look at the bottom line for a profit. Yes they are accountable for the money spent, however, they are not there for a profit, they are there to provide a service to the community.

 

[rescue99]

So a company that runs for profit, at the end of the financial year has a responsibility to their shareholders. These fine upstanding people have invested money in the company & expect a return on their investment from the maximised profits. Failure to return a profit sees the company go bankrupt & all the associated mess that goes along with that.

A government run service, that is free of the profitability shackle, that provides the same level of service to all people, does not look at the bottom line for a profit. Yes they are accountable for the money spent, however, they are not there for a profit, they are there to provide a service to the community.

Wow...brain washed socalists......they're so cute!

 

[rescue99]

Its great you consider it the right thing to do to provide free healthcare in other countries, for foreign nationals in their country, yet your healthcare system does not see itself as a basic right for a first world country.

Well done.

When you say "right" it sounds like the echos of our 3rd generation welfare queens, illegals and indigent foriegners looking for a free ride on U.S. Most working families do not favor a plan that puts us in the same gorssly high cost of living ditch that other countires slid into. Once yer in, ya can't get out and the only tow truck is owned by Uncle Sam! No thanks.

We have many social programs that are free to low cost avialable. People here want both free and free choice. Neither of which much of the world has without our support....you're welcome!

 

[redcrossemt]

So a company that runs for profit, at the end of the financial year has a responsibility to their shareholders. These fine upstanding people have invested money in the company & expect a return on their investment from the maximised profits. Failure to return a profit sees the company go bankrupt & all the associated mess that goes along with that.

A government run service, that is free of the profitability shackle, that provides the same level of service to all people, does not look at the bottom line for a profit. Yes they are accountable for the money spent, however, they are not there for a profit, they are there to provide a service to the community.

But the "accountability for money spent" ends up with governmental-run services pushed to cutting jobs and cutting corners... Look at the Detroit EMS system. They are technically a division of the fire-department, but pretty much a third-service with separate management. Definitely government-run with taxes backing them. In this system, you'll find severely overworked medics with less than state-of-the-art equipment, because the service cut jobs, took trucks off the road, and doesn't replace equipment in order to save money.

 

[downunderwunda]

Wow...brain washed socalists......they're so cute!

Negative.

I am all for profitable private enterprise.

However, i am also acutley aware that there are some functions that should NEVER be run for profit.Healthcare, Education & Emergency services are 3 of those functions.

 

[downunderwunda]

When you say "right" it sounds like the echos of our 3rd generation welfare queens, illegals and indigent foriegners looking for a free ride on U.S. Most working families do not favor a plan that puts us in the same gorssly high cost of living ditch that other countires slid into. Once yer in, ya can't get out and the only tow truck is owned by Uncle Sam! No thanks.

We have many social programs that are free to low cost avialable. People here want both free and free choice. Neither of which much of the world has without our support....you're welcome!

I am not the one who hides behind the 'Bill of Rights', the American institution. So if you want to consider anyone claiming their Rights as a 3rd generation welfare queen, then you have just insulted any of your fellow Americans who love to claim their rights.

What I am talking about is more than a right to bear arms, or a right to free speech. I am talking about a right to access healthcare, regardless of socio-economic status. These are Human Rights, something that I would have thought would have been part of anyone in EMS having an interest in fighting for.

 

[downunderwunda]

But the "accountability for money spent" ends up with governmental-run services pushed to cutting jobs and cutting corners... Look at the Detroit EMS system. They are technically a division of the fire-department, but pretty much a third-service with separate management. Definitely government-run with taxes backing them. In this system, you'll find severely overworked medics with less than state-of-the-art equipment, because the service cut jobs, took trucks off the road, and doesn't replace equipment in order to save money.

So when we have a financial crisis, recession or economic downturn, & EMS companies go broke cause no one can afford to pay the bill, who picks up the slack? Who is laying off workers then?

EMS Should not be part of fire. Fire has a vested interest in seeing EMS fail. Let Fire concentrate on their core business of fighting fires. Let EMS Stand alone.

 

[rescue99]

Negative.

I am all for profitable private enterprise.

However, i am also acutley aware that there are some functions that should NEVER be run for profit.Healthcare, Education & Emergency services are 3 of those functions.

NAAAA, you're just for being told where, what and how to breath or even if you can breath at all. Sorry, socialized medicine is worse than our current medicaid system. It often decides who lives or dies through selective intervention. I have 3 aussie friends who had 2 choices for their cancer treatment in the last 2 years...the one they were handed or buy it themselves!! I have several friends and family of friends in Canada who had the same thing happen. Either they weren't allowed treatment or, diagnosis was too slow to enable proper treatment. Several died over the years because they could not get treatment. In fact, one died recently, at the age of 43 because he wasn't diagnosed early enough. Age limitations placed on screening left him to die even though he paid high taxes for his insurance like everyone else. NO...sociaized medicine isn't a good idea. It's costly and people die.

"Free" society means we have choices and make our own decisions...including the freedom to vote and have our say in politics/policies. Granted, politics always screws things up but, we're still more solid than 99% of the rest of the world.

We vote without fear of fine or punishment because we are free. No one fines us or forces us. We vote, don't vote, it's a choice but, I am not interested in any opinion from someone who does not bother to cast their's. I'd bet that half the people demanding to be handed a freebie, doesn't bother to vote or isn't a citizen and has no right to make any demands. The other half deserve to be heard.

Those who cannot do for themselves, we help here. There are already social programs in place. Can we expand? Yes...some. Should we, to an extent. Those who won't or we don't owe anything to, we have no obligation to help nor should we help! Those who can, ought to darned well be taking care of their own family members. I will gladly help support their needs if, it enables a family to keep a loved one at home whenever possible. We need that option available. It isn't possible for some families and we should help. For the rest, it's just plain ole selfishness. Guess if they can afford it of course but, don't ask me to pay for it. It is NOT the govt.'s (tax payers) responsibility to take care of our family...it's ours! I would be glad to expand any financial/healthcare program that puts family first. Billions could be saved if people would just take care of their own! We've been spoiled and lazy for the last 45 years..... too busy taking vacations and buying bigger houses and televisions to give a tinkers damn about those who helped build our great country. Change really does need to begin at home.

 

[firecoins]

However, i am also acutley aware that there are some functions that should NEVER be run for profit.Healthcare, Education & Emergency services are 3 of those functions.

Most of the time anything with always or never is wrong.

 

[redcrossemt]

Most of the time anything with always or never is wrong.

LOL

 

[redcrossemt]

So when we have a financial crisis, recession or economic downturn, & EMS companies go broke cause no one can afford to pay the bill, who picks up the slack? Who is laying off workers then?

EMS Should not be part of fire. Fire has a vested interest in seeing EMS fail. Let Fire concentrate on their core business of fighting fires. Let EMS Stand alone.

I'm still not sure what the difference between government and private run EMS agencies is in regards to finances... Both types of service lay off workers, shut down cars, buy less equipment, etc. when financial times get tough.

I agree that EMS should not be part of fire, and should stand alone for many reasons. However, I'm not convinced that governmental agencies, even EMS-only third services, can do any better job than the privates.

 

[downunderwunda]

NAAAA, you're just for being told where, what and how to breath or even if you can breath at all. Sorry, socialized medicine is worse than our current medicaid system. It often decides who lives or dies through selective intervention. I have 3 aussie friends who had 2 choices for their cancer treatment in the last 2 years...the one they were handed or buy it themselves!! I have several friends and family of friends in Canada who had the same thing happen. Either they weren't allowed treatment or, diagnosis was too slow to enable proper treatment. Several died over the years because they could not get treatment. In fact, one died recently, at the age of 43 because he wasn't diagnosed early enough. Age limitations placed on screening left him to die even though he paid high taxes for his insurance like everyone else. NO...sociaized medicine isn't a good idea. It's costly and people die.

"Free" society means we have choices and make our own decisions...including the freedom to vote and have our say in politics/policies. Granted, politics always screws things up but, we're still more solid than 99% of the rest of the world.

We vote without fear of fine or punishment because we are free. No one fines us or forces us. We vote, don't vote, it's a choice but, I am not interested in any opinion from someone who does not bother to cast their's. I'd bet that half the people demanding to be handed a freebie, doesn't bother to vote or isn't a citizen and has no right to make any demands. The other half deserve to be heard.

Those who cannot do for themselves, we help here. There are already social programs in place. Can we expand? Yes...some. Should we, to an extent. Those who won't or we don't owe anything to, we have no obligation to help nor should we help! Those who can, ought to darned well be taking care of their own family members. I will gladly help support their needs if, it enables a family to keep a loved one at home whenever possible. We need that option available. It isn't possible for some families and we should help. For the rest, it's just plain ole selfishness. Guess if they can afford it of course but, don't ask me to pay for it. It is NOT the govt.'s (tax payers) responsibility to take care of our family...it's ours! I would be glad to expand any financial/healthcare program that puts family first. Billions could be saved if people would just take care of their own! We've been spoiled and lazy for the last 45 years..... too busy taking vacations and buying bigger houses and televisions to give a tinkers damn about those who helped build our great country. Change really does need to begin at home.

So you think it is OK for people to be denied medical treatment because they can not afford the insurance?

 

[rescue99]

So you think it is OK for people to be denied medical treatment because they can not afford the insurance?

Absolutely. In the right circumstances sure do!

 

[rescue99]

I'm still not sure what the difference between government and private run EMS agencies is in regards to finances... Both types of service lay off workers, shut down cars, buy less equipment, etc. when financial times get tough.

I agree that EMS should not be part of fire, and should stand alone for many reasons. However, I'm not convinced that governmental agencies, even EMS-only third services, can do any better job than the privates.

You're right...it is a bigger job than one entity can manage alone and the risks of doing business are equal to all parties.

 

[Chimpie]

Absolutely. In the right circumstances sure do!

Please list some examples of 'the right circumstances'.

 

[rescue99]

Please list some examples of 'the right circumstances'.

Some mentions have already been made.

 

[wolfwyndd]

[snippage for brevity]
It often decides who lives or dies through selective intervention.
[snippage]

And how is that any different then the system we have now? INSURANCE companies decide who lives and who dies by selective intervention. "IE, WE don't think this intervention will benefit you so we're not going to approve / pay for it."

NO...sociaized medicine isn't a good idea. It's costly and people die.

And let me repeat myself. How is that any different then the system we have now? The system we have now is costly and people die. So, if we converted the American system to a socialized system, what will change? NOTHING. We will simply have DIFFERENT people making the same decisions. I honestly don't like the idea of a FOR PROFIT employee making those decisions. (Theoretically) Gov't employees aren't keeping (as close) an eye on the bottom line as a FOR PROFIT insurance company. I'd rather have someone like that making health decisions.

[snippage] . . . I am not interested in any opinion from someone who does not bother to cast their's. I'd bet that half the people demanding to be handed a freebie, doesn't bother to vote or isn't a citizen and has no right to make any demands. The other half deserve to be heard.

I agree that voting is a civic RESPONSIBILITY in the US, but just because they don't vote doesn't mean they can't voice their opinion. Voting or not, freedom of speech extends to everyone. When I signed up to defend my country, I didn't sign up to defend ONLY the US citizens that voted, I signed up to defend ALL US citizens. At some point we have to look PAST our constitutionally provided rights and look at the HUMAN rights. When I roll up on the scene of a gunshot victim my responsibility is scene safety first and treating that victim. No where in my teaching or local protocol is 'check citizenship' addressed. It's not there because it doesn't need to be there. I believe that we need to cover the health care costs of EVERYONE in need, not just some.

 

[rescue99]

Sure it does! Don't bother voting then don't complain. Do not try to excersise a right you already blew off. That time has passed. Freedom of speech is already expressed loud and clear the moment any of us decide to walk away from our privalege to help decide on matters that affect each of us, our community, state and our country.

 

[JPINFV]

Please list some examples of 'the right circumstances'.

Elective cosmetic surgery.

Diseases that are unambiguously the fault of bad decisions by the person.