I'm pretty new... Me and my partner were heading back for a crew change we were a bls unit and there was a accident and I seen no other units or PD on scene. I pulled up and asked if everything was ok I was told they wanted us to stay and check out two little kids that were involved. I let my dispatch know and I got an attitude. "Uhh you know there's injuries at that accident and you're not going to be able to transport" from what I seen there was no serious injuries, everyone was standing around and an off duty nurse was with two kids that were involved, there was no obivous trauma to anyone. Fire showed up quickly and took over. Was I wrong to stop? The dispatcher had a tone in his voice like he didn't want us to stay.
When you're working and come across a MVA are you obligated to stop
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ERDoc
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The answer is, it depends. State laws vary. Are you the 911 agency? From a PR standpoint it looks bad if people see an ambulance pass the scene of an accident and not stop, especially if there are serious injuries, kids or pregnant women. When I work the privates (not the 911 agency) we would stop and have dispatch notify 911. We would advise what resources were needed and as soon as someone from the responding 911 agency showed up, step back and ask if there was anything they would like us to do. If not, we cleared the scene and went on our way.
medichopeful
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Nope, not wrong to stop in this situation unless your company has a policy saying you don't stop (which I can't imagine they would have. Can you imagine the publicity issues?). Doing a transport is a little bit more of a complicated issue, but doesn't sound like that was the case here.
ERDoc
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The private I worked for didn't mind if we transported as long as we weren't already assigned to a call and were able to get insurance info. They even gave us a $20 bonus if we were able to initiate a call.
Jim37F
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Yeah double check your local and state laws.
But anecdotally, everywhere I worked if we happened across an accident scene, we'd stop and call in the "Still Alarm" to dispatch and investigate for any injuries. This was the same whether I was working for a private IFT only company, an FD 911 only ambulance or a private company with combined 911/IFT services, regardless if we were in our 911 response area or not. If it was in my 911 service area and we did not have a patient on board, we would officially be assigned the call. If it was outside our jurisdiction and/or back in my IFT only days, our dispatch would notify the appropriate agencies dispatch and we would stay on scene to treat any injuries until the jurisdictional provider showed up and took over. If we were enroute to another call, dispatch would simply assign another unit to the original call, and treat it the same way if the "still alarm" came in as a normal dispatch and they reshuffled units to go to the closer calls (i.e. "Unit X, change in response to a closer call, TC at ABC Intersection.....BEEP BEEP BEEP Unit Y, respond to the fall at DEF Care Facility....")
Now things got a little trickier if we had a patient on board, but fortunately the rules have tended to stay the same for me across the different services I've worked for. What matters is how stable is my existing patient in the back? For a stable patient (most all BLS and code 2 ALS transports) the same thing, we'd stop, call in the still alarm and another unit would be dispatched, while we provided initial triage, care and treatment until they took over and we could continue transport.
For an unstable patient, things get trickier, but the rule of thumb was basically pull up to the scene, and simply inform someone there on the scene "Hey, we see the accident, I've called it in to our dispatch so another unit is responding, but unfortunately we can't stop because we've already got a critical patient on board that needs to get to the hospital now". That way you (hopefully) avoid the problems of "OMG That ambulance just drove by the accident with out stopping!"
Fortunately in my 3+ years I've yet to actually need to do any of this.
But anecdotally, everywhere I worked if we happened across an accident scene, we'd stop and call in the "Still Alarm" to dispatch and investigate for any injuries. This was the same whether I was working for a private IFT only company, an FD 911 only ambulance or a private company with combined 911/IFT services, regardless if we were in our 911 response area or not. If it was in my 911 service area and we did not have a patient on board, we would officially be assigned the call. If it was outside our jurisdiction and/or back in my IFT only days, our dispatch would notify the appropriate agencies dispatch and we would stay on scene to treat any injuries until the jurisdictional provider showed up and took over. If we were enroute to another call, dispatch would simply assign another unit to the original call, and treat it the same way if the "still alarm" came in as a normal dispatch and they reshuffled units to go to the closer calls (i.e. "Unit X, change in response to a closer call, TC at ABC Intersection.....BEEP BEEP BEEP Unit Y, respond to the fall at DEF Care Facility....")
Now things got a little trickier if we had a patient on board, but fortunately the rules have tended to stay the same for me across the different services I've worked for. What matters is how stable is my existing patient in the back? For a stable patient (most all BLS and code 2 ALS transports) the same thing, we'd stop, call in the still alarm and another unit would be dispatched, while we provided initial triage, care and treatment until they took over and we could continue transport.
For an unstable patient, things get trickier, but the rule of thumb was basically pull up to the scene, and simply inform someone there on the scene "Hey, we see the accident, I've called it in to our dispatch so another unit is responding, but unfortunately we can't stop because we've already got a critical patient on board that needs to get to the hospital now". That way you (hopefully) avoid the problems of "OMG That ambulance just drove by the accident with out stopping!"
Fortunately in my 3+ years I've yet to actually need to do any of this.
That's exactly what I was thinking was all these people are going to see me drive right by and that's not going to look good. I wasn't planning on transporting but wanted to see what was going on it looked bad, it was a roll over. Everyone was out of their cars and no apparent trauma injuries but dispatch made it seem like I should not have stopped and I feel I didn't something wrong, that's why I questioned it. Thank you.
As basic at this company we do do some 911, a lot of IFTs and priority 2s which most of the time isn't that serious. Medics get most the 911 stuff. There was no fire or PD or anyone else on scene so I figured I had to stop. Maybe I should of advised dispatch differently. I didn't think I was wrong (or my partner) but dispatch made it seem like it.
Who cares what dispatch thinks.
Jim37F
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Especially if you have a duty to act law in your state
JohnTheEMT
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Sounds like it is your dispatcher who has an attitude problem. Are you an IFT only ambulance ? You stated that fire took over and your dispatcher said you wont be able to transport. My agency is the 911 provider of the county and we are required to stop and ask if anyone is hurt . If someone is hurt then we let dispatch know to start an engine and a squad to our location . You did good in your part to stop and check , dont beat yourself over it man.
gotbeerz001
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Wait guys, are you saying there's a chance that a dispatcher has attitude?! Next line you'll be feeding us is that charge nurses have attitude!!! *ohlawdy*
bcemr
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In Canada we're obligated to stop, unless of course that puts your current patient at risk. I can't imagine being in EMS and NOT stopping. I'd probably end my career that day if that happened.
If it were to happen in California, It falls under the Duty To Act. I've responded to TCs before, even as a simple non-emergency BLS unit. As long as there's no patient on board, you're 100% fine. And whatever lip the dispatch gives you...if they have an issue, they'll file an incident report and you and your partner will get to tell your side of the story.
Bullets
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What do you mean "youre not allowed to trasnport" If you arent currently transporting and you pull up on something and the patient needs to go to an ER, why wouldnt you be able to take that patient to the ER/
We have a bunch of major highways in both my jobs towns that lead to hospitals, so its not uncommon to find a IFT truck or another agency there before we get there. If the IFT crew already has an assessment and such done, why would i break up the continuity of care unnecessarily? I am more than happy to let someone else transport, it breaks up their day, and it leaves me available to answer other calls in my primary
We have a bunch of major highways in both my jobs towns that lead to hospitals, so its not uncommon to find a IFT truck or another agency there before we get there. If the IFT crew already has an assessment and such done, why would i break up the continuity of care unnecessarily? I am more than happy to let someone else transport, it breaks up their day, and it leaves me available to answer other calls in my primary
In our 1000sqmi county no one else is allowed to transport someone who called 911. Example of a call I went on...Private company was working one of the events they are allowed to work. The private crew started an IV and was giving fluids. They had to inform their dispatch to call 911, for us to come transport them to the ER. It's politics and the medical directors choice.
Would be awesome if we could give privates the lower priority calls.
Underoath87
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If they are non-emergency only and don't hold a 911 transport license, they can't bill for a random patient transport. Admin doesn't like giving free rides. At least that's how it works here.
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Tony Ippolito
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Obligated to stop as far as I know. What if you pass them up and someone passes? You didn't have a patient. You can at least assess and provide protection via your ambulance to the scene until fire arrives. Plus what EMT on a bls ambulance doesn't want to stop lol.
Get used to dispatch giving you attitude... It happens.
Get used to dispatch giving you attitude... It happens.
Bullets
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What are you going to do? Arrest them? Isnt that delaying care too?
Very different from NJ then. We only have 6 types of ambulances in NJ. 2 are for non-billing agencies like volunteers and that a whole different ball of wax.
If you bill, you are either Mobility Van(like wheelchair vans), BLS, ALS, or SCTU. So even though i work for towns that exclusively provide municipal 911 service, we adhere to the same standards as an agency that primarily does IFT. Same base equipment requirements so if i pull up and find a IFT company, they hold the same BLS license from DOH as we do. The only "non-emergency" license is those mobility vans
Not sure of the ramifications. Our medical directors credential each ALS transport provider for the county. Only people he does this for is our department. Giving us sole rights to 911 transport. Privates are not credentialed, so no transport.
RedAirplane
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I've actually taken interest in the laws surrounding this sort of stuff, although I am way over my head trying to make sense of them.
In my area, as far as I can tell, you have a duty to stop and help, but Agency X pays the county for exclusive rights to emergent transports (read: billing), so they have to show up if the patient needs transport. As such, there are funny legal issues: if an IFT ambulance ever turns on the lights and sirens, there has to be a special incident report to the Duty Chief.
I think you did the right thing--what a reasonable prudent person would do.
In my area, as far as I can tell, you have a duty to stop and help, but Agency X pays the county for exclusive rights to emergent transports (read: billing), so they have to show up if the patient needs transport. As such, there are funny legal issues: if an IFT ambulance ever turns on the lights and sirens, there has to be a special incident report to the Duty Chief.
I think you did the right thing--what a reasonable prudent person would do.