What's wrong with this video?

Mistakes happen. Confusion? Negligence? Ignorance? Stupidity? Nervous? Yep.
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yes yes and yes JJ, in a broader scope, who's fault is it that we subscribe to a gun crazed society?

couple that thought with a growing police state mentality (not meaning to pick on the bro's in blue, but the overall jist of our political landscape)

shake, don't stir, bake @ farenhient 911, and what do you see in 2016?

~S~
 
oh btw~ i've an arsenal too, and my gun is bigger than yours!

~S~
 
Stevo said:
oh btw~ i've an arsenal too, and my gun is bigger than yours!

~S~
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My brother has an oxygen tank cannon...

He refilled O2 tanks on the side, and we set up a steel tube cannon with a 250 lb drop weight. The old tank is slid down the barrell, one end is closed with a 200 thread plug. The weight is dropped, and it shoots the tank out, and into some misc object..

My father owns a lot of land, so there is really no danger of it going anywhere... Plus it has a cupped tip, so it can't gain the speed of an actual missile. Usually it smacks a tree with enough force to collapse the steel, and make the trunk explode or break.

That's as close as I come to shooting a gun regularly.
 
TTLWHKR said:
That's as close as I come to shooting a gun regularly.
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Well Hell that sounds like a lot more fun that shooting a gun! :)
 
It is... Makes a sound like a CO2 cylinder discharging. The surface that it hits and the remains of the tank are always really hot, while the barrell of the cannon is covered in frost.
 
Stevo said:
yes yes and yes JJ, in a broader scope, who's fault is it that we subscribe to a gun crazed society?

couple that thought with a growing police state mentality (not meaning to pick on the bro's in blue, but the overall jist of our political landscape)

shake, don't stir, bake @ farenhient 911, and what do you see in 2016?

~S~
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Hopefully, a safer and more secure society. One where people who haven't done anything wrong aren't afraid, and those who have, are. Oh, and hopefully there'll be a national healthcare system, too.
 
JJR512 said:
One where people who haven't done anything wrong aren't afraid, and those who have, are. Oh, and hopefully there'll be a national healthcare system, too.
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And I have a bridge in Arizona I can sell you as well as a BEAUTIFUL gulf front home with an OPEN floor plan right on the beaches of Florida. Intrested?
 
It's curious you had to take out the part where I said "HOPEFULLY" to make your point. There's a difference between hoping something will happen and believing it will happen. I meant exactly what I said, and only what I said; nothing more, nothing less. I hope that's where we'll be.

But if that's not where we are, for some reason I very much doubt it will be because of anything Michael Moore is worried about.
 
If you want all that... move to Canada.


BTW. I voted for Kerry.
 
TTLWHKR said:
If you want all that... move to Canada.


BTW. I voted for Kerry.
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Instead of moving to Canada, I'll do whatever little thing I can do to make it that way here. This country gives me the right to say how I want it to be, and the means to at least try to make it that way. For example, with my vote, I voted on a third party person. Some people told me that was a waste of a good vote. I choose to vote against the major parties to send them a message. It may just be one vote, it may not have mattered...but all votes come from individuals; we all have "just one vote". More people need to get up off their *** to exercise their right to try to make this country better, whatever better may be in their own opinions.
 
well the gun control issue goes deeper than our elections folks, it's a mindset ingrained in our American pshyce

lets start off with some facts if we're going to delve into the issue....

More Americans were killed by guns than by war in the 20th Century.
More Americans were killed with guns in the 18-year period between 1979 and 1997 (651,697), than were killed in battle in all wars since 1775 (650,858). And while a sharp drop in gun homicides has contributed to a decline in overall gun deaths since 1993, the 90's will likely exceed the death toll of the 1980s (327,173) and end up being the deadliest decade of the century. By the end of the 1990s, an estimated 350,000 Americans will have been killed in non-military-related firearm incidents during the decade.
Handgun Control 12/30/99 (Press release from CDC data)
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now some of this data gets a tad scary doesn't it? perhaps intricate knowledge of them paints those two strung out cops whom just subdued a perp in a high speed chase in a different light?

however, we do have this little 2nd Amendment here that many stand on as being the gold standard of freedom

Amendment II - Right to bear arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
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now if one reads this carefully, one may conclude that it was written not so much as a right to arms, as an obligation of the people to protect themselves from a rouge goverment right?

of course it was written back in the days of black powder muskets and cannons, so to assume here that the premis would fly in 2006 i'd have to have the right to obtain the very same munitions as the gov has

as such, please join me in petitioning the NRA to solicit Black Hawk choppers and howitzers for the general public

Cop "do you know why i pulled you over Stevo"?

Stevo "i was doing 34 in a 30 mph zone"?

Cop "no, that howitzer is taking up a lot of dashboard room & blocking your vision"

Stevo"well i'm protecting myself against any rouge goverments, part of the local milita you see"

Cop "well ok, try not to point it AT the school when you pick up your kid again, it really sets them off"

Stevo Sir, yes Sir"! (snappy salute)

~S~
 
I don't mean to start another big debate here, but I just wanted to point out one thing about the "facts" that you reference.

If you go to the link, it is from a blatently anti-gun site. Fine, I have no problem with that. So lets take a look at their first "fact", shall we?

title_facts.gif

5 children were killed every day in gun related accidents and suicides committed with a firearm, from 1994-1998.
An average of 5 children were killed every day in gun related accidents and suicides committed with a firearm, from 1994-1998.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, National Injury Mortality Statistics, 1994-1998
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Notice that the site quotes the 1994-1998 CDC National Injury and Mortality Statistics for their reference. That's good, right? Then why does the link provided take you to the following site called www.kidsandguns.org and not the CDC? Why does the site referenced only show the data from 1997-2002 yet the original fact covers the period from 1994-1998?


Setting all of those questions aside for a moment, I would like to to point out one MAJOR problem with these facts. If you look at the data provided in a nice and easy to use table format, you will see that for each year firearms deaths are broken down by category (Accidental, Suicide, Homicide, Undetermined/Other) and that each category is broken down into age ranges. The ranges are from 0-4 years old, 5-9 years old, 10-14 years old, and 15-19 years old. The problem with these ranges is that in this country, a person is considered an adult at the age of 18 yet for the purposes of the "facts", they are a child until they are 20 years old. So, using these defined age groups, this would include the 17-19 year olds that are serving in todays military. Do you think that might skew the data a little?


Please understand that I do not want this to turn into another discussion about firearms, since this in not the right place for it. I just wanted to point out that just because someone says something is a fact and have the statistics to back it up does not mean it is one.

 
If a more appropriate place is needed for this type of debate, I'd like to suggest my own message board. It's the same kind as this place, but it's more for general discussion (as well as some computer-specific forums). This is the kind of discussion we used to thrive on there (unfortunately, I couldn't afford to keep it online for the last two years, and since it's been back, it's been a little slow, but this might stir things up a bit).

http://www.jjr512.com/

(I apologize if this message is seen as too spammy; if those in charge here feel it is so, please delete this message, and accept my apologies.)
 
what more appropo place to debate the issue than among those whom see and have to clean up the mess folks?

this is quite the fight (as well as political diversion) , and our trade is right in the crossfire.

and yes FF, statictics don't lie, but liars sure use them don't they? In all fairness, you may also find challenge to said antigun stats directly from the NRA

perhaps some are aware of the latest legislation moving across the country?

or some of the implications that have arisen due to said choices?

of course the whole shebang is more pointed this week due to Cheney's quail hunting snafu (isn't this the man who has his finger on that red 'nuke' button?) , so have at it people..... nobody need get roasted for their views right? :)
annspit.jpg

~S~
 
Stevo said:
and yes FF, statictics don't lie, but liars sure use them don't they?
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I'm sure you've heard the saying that there are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics. :D
 
You can make stats say whatever you want, if you try hard enough... trust me. :)
 
100% of the respondants in a recently conducted survey agreed with that statement.

(I asked myself a minute ago and I agreed.)
 
Alright, I can't stay out of this one. Again my views on personal responsibility and personal liberty are going to put me out where I don't want to go. But I am going to just post once on this (I promise?).

My view on guns and gun rights is the following:
Guns are not bad. A gun is an inanimate object that only reacts to an action that a person takes. People are the problem, and they use guns as a tool to do their dirty work. You can't get all the guns off of the street, because everyone knows what a gun is and how they work. Even if you could get every current gun off of the street, there are people who would exploit that by making their own guns and we would then be at their disposal.

The fact is that this country was founded on the right to keep and bear arms. Is keeping and bearing arms the same now as it was back when this country was founded? - No. If this country were founded today, would it be reasonable to outlaw firearms to begin with?- Yes, at least to an extent. Should average Joe Shmoe carry automatice weapons?- No. Should the current federal juggernaut that is the U.S. Government dictate what kind of firearms we can possess?- No, unless they want to put the same limitations on the FBI's HRT.

The flaw in the whole concept of gun control is that the laws that are put into place are going to be followed only by the people who are not the problem. The person who has no history of violence who currently carries a firearm either for personal protection or for recreation will have that liberty stripped. The person who is likely to endanger the general population is likely already breaking the law by carrying a weapon. There are plenty of laws in place that prevent felons or persons with a history of domestic violence from possessing a firearm. There are icreased penalties for persons who commit other crimes (including drug possesssion) with a gun simply in their possession. These are common sense laws, the problem is that they are not enforced with severe enough penalties. The people who are a current threat would continue to be, regardless of the level of gun control. There will be no perfect utopia of no dangerous weapons on the streets regardless of the imposition on the common mans liberty.

We are a people that is currently dependant on firearms to protect ourselves and as part of our recreational culture. To simply dismiss this would be as irresponsible as any action that any fool that has misused a gun has taken. The instances of gun related accidents does continue to increase, but take a look at what the population increase is like. That has more to do with the increase of gun deaths either from accident or an intentional act than anything else. Remember when you are looking at any statistical trend put into a chronological context that there are more people on the face of the earth now that there have been in the entirity of history put together. There are currently places where gun related deaths are actually decreasing, even though you have a greater population.

There is an ever growing faction of the population that has had no exposure, or no postitive exposure to firearms. These people are likely to only see guns as a symbol of power or criminality. Often they will see guns as something only the cops and robbers will have, that they are not a common tool for the average person. This faction will likely never understand what guns truly are. The gun is a tool, that can be used for good, evil, or recreation but possesses none of those properties inherently. The possessor is the one who bestows those properties on that inanimate object.

Of course, the one thing about guns that is truly a problem is the safety issues associated with children in homes that have legally owned firearms. Even the children of police officers who only have a duty weapon are at risk. The efforts of persons who wish to mitigate the risks should be given due consideration for action. Trigger locks are a reasonable safety precaution in a home where children are present. I would suggest though, that the best way to decrease accidents is to prepare children for the responsibility of gun use by education and training. A child that understands what kind of deadly power a gun can deliver and is well trained in the use of them is less likely to have an accident. This is also a chance to develop a parent child relationship that will keep the child from straying down a self-destructive path in the future.

The primary issue I have is that once a "right" (which it is not, it is a liberty and a responsibility, not a right) has been extended, it should not be infringed upon by governmental intrusion. The government's responsibility is not to protect us from ourselves, but rather to protect us from outside dangers we are not capable of defending alone.
 
heres a thought for this thread...

America is a gun culture that off's more of it's own each year than OBL (et all boogymen) could ever hope to

and we get to clean it up....

~S~
 
Guns dont kill - idiots wielding guns do!

And I hate to say it I have respect for VERY FEW cops if any - the majority Ive run into are arrogant SOBs who get a tingle in their loins everytime the dispatch goes off, hoping they might get to use their arresting powers.

The few that I do respect have been doing this for a very long time, and have either come into Law Enforcement humbled, or had an experience that really humbled them.

CP
 
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