What's the point of dual medic?

[STXmedic]

:beerchug:

 

[nocoderob]

How interesting since you said this in a thread asking how old you are a few weeks ago.



You also posted calling yourself uneducated when you asked why we don't just give everyone narcan. Odd question for someone with so much education and experience who claims they are good at knowing when their patients need any of the "fancy toys" ALS carries.



You know what is worse than a paramedic who underestimates an EMT? A provider who is a god in their own mind who overestimates themselves.

UH OH................:rofl:

And here I thought I was done with this thread. Its gettin' good now!

 

[Bullets]

 

[DrParasite]

DrParasite,
Too much to quote there so let me hit some highlights;
Nope, no degree. I do have some AP, chem, etc from several years ago when I was going to do nursing.
As far as experience and "seeing the same," yea, in 20 years working in two of CA busiest counties, I have seen a few things myself.

so you don't even have a degree? so now you are talking down to non-degree providers without having one yourself. do you realize how hypocritical that makes you?

Like I stated earlier, maybe you can perform more tasks where you work than can an EMT where I work. Ours can give O2, CPR, AED, basic first aid, and drive code three if needed.

it's not about skills. I know you can do more. others understand that. you don't. end of story.

There is no tiered system. Every 911 call gets a minimum of an ALS rig with one or two medics and an engine with one or more medics.

how many times last month did you intubate someone? CPAP someone? transport a penetrating trauma? deliver a baby? remember, studies show that the more medics you have the poorer the individual medic's skills are.

Sending a BLS rig to decide whether an ALS rig is needed seems more like a waste of resources to me. But, maybe you do not have a fire dept response in your area like we do.

we don't have fire dept response. I don't like fire department response, as I think EMS should be able to handle their own calls without needing the FD to stop the clock because we don't have enough resources. I have been pretty consistent in my opinion on this for years.

I doubt attitudes like mine keep you from getting your card. There must be more to it if you have not done so in 15 years.

yeah, the pay sucks, I don't want to work 3 jobs when I have kids, the job can only be done until your body fails you, the pay sucks, and all too often management treats you like crap because you are replaceable. did I mention the pay sucks? note nowhere did I say I couldn't do it, I just chose not to. Plus depending on where I worked I might have to take a pay cut, or getting the $2 raise isn't worth it for 2 years of my life.

In summary, this thread is, again, about why should there be dual medic units. I, and others, have already stated why we think it is a better system. I gave reasons as to why I think that way based on my experiences. You on the other hand had to tell me all about your degree, experience, and all the cool calls you have seen over the years.
Then you state, "I prefer tiered systems 100%. Dual medic and dual EMT. This way the lone medic doesn't do all the work, has someone to bounce ideas off of, has someone else to try to start the IV when the first person can't get it." These are a couple of reasons I feel dual is better. So why are you all bent out of shape again?

if you haven't figured it out by now, then i won't waste any more with you. maybe I can give you some coloring books which are more your speed?

I don't consider myself an "aggressive" paramedic. But, I do treat the pt as much as necessary. To me, it is far better for pts to recieve an ALS rig and not need ALS than it is to recieve a BLS rig, actually need ALS treatment, and only recieve a fast BLS ride instead.

you know the deep dark secret of EMS? the one the studies have shown? ALS doesn't save lives, and all too often the majority (but not all) of your patients just need a fast BLS ride to the hospital.

You also posted calling yourself uneducated when you asked why we don't just give everyone narcan. Odd question for someone with so much education and experience who claims they are good at knowing when their patients need any of the "fancy toys" ALS carries.

I'm uneducated because I'm not a paramedic, not because I'm uneducated in the grand scheme of things. There is a difference. And it's not the first time I have called myself uneducated. or just an EMT. But just because I am just an EMT, doesn't mean you should make the assumption that I am uneducated.

You know what is worse than a paramedic who underestimates an EMT? A provider who is a god in their own mind who overestimates themselves.

That would be a paragod. i'm just an EMT, remember?

hey NVRob, since I'm done with this thread, can I have one of your beers?

 

[Aidey]

No explanation for the fact that you said you were 20 in a recent post, which undermines pretty much everything you posted in this thread?

And it is pretty obvious EMTs can have a paragod complex too.

 

[Handsome Robb]

hey NVRob, since I'm done with this thread, can I have one of your beers?

No, you're only 20. I don't contribute to the delinquency of minors.

I'll drink one or two for you while I float down the river today though. How's that sound?

In an effort to keep this thread remotely on topic, I like working dual medic *if* the second medic understands that if it's my call it's my call and don't second guess me unless I ask for your input or I'm doing something that could potentially be wrong or harm the patient and I'll act the same way when it's your call.

With that said I don't mind the P/I combo at all. My intermediate can start lines, push drugs do most of the stuff a paramedic partner could do as long as I "order" them to do it. They can also take a fair share of calls so the workload seems like it gets distributed better than P/B trucks. I've never worked P/B though so I'm not sure.

 

[nocoderob]

so you don't even have a degree? so now you are talking down to non-degree providers without having one yourself. do you realize how hypocritical that makes you?it's not about skills. I know you can do more. others understand that. you don't. end of story.how many times last month did you intubate someone? CPAP someone? transport a penetrating trauma? deliver a baby? remember, studies show that the more medics you have the poorer the individual medic's skills are.we don't have fire dept response. I don't like fire department response, as I think EMS should be able to handle their own calls without needing the FD to stop the clock because we don't have enough resources. I have been pretty consistent in my opinion on this for years.yeah, the pay sucks, I don't want to work 3 jobs when I have kids, the job can only be done until your body fails you, the pay sucks, and all too often management treats you like crap because you are replaceable. did I mention the pay sucks? note nowhere did I say I couldn't do it, I just chose not to. Plus depending on where I worked I might have to take a pay cut, or getting the $2 raise isn't worth it for 2 years of my life.if you haven't figured it out by now, then i won't waste any more with you. maybe I can give you some coloring books which are more your speed?
you know the deep dark secret of EMS? the one the studies have shown? ALS doesn't save lives, and all too often the majority (but not all) of your patients just need a fast BLS ride to the hospital. I'm uneducated because I'm not a paramedic, not because I'm uneducated in the grand scheme of things. There is a difference. And it's not the first time I have called myself uneducated. or just an EMT. But just because I am just an EMT, doesn't mean you should make the assumption that I am uneducated. That would be a paragod. i'm just an EMT, remember?

hey NVRob, since I'm done with this thread, can I have one of your beers?

So, are you 20 years old or what? Is your "15 years of experience" bullsh%t or not? Is your BS degree real or is that BS as well? BTW, how did you attain a degree when your writing, spelling, and grammar skills are so poor? All questions inquiring minds are dying to know. By the way you answer, juvenile type attacks just like my kids would do, makes me think you are FOS. Provide some answers and maybe, just maybe, this discussion will continue. Hey Rob, I will take his beer. And yes, I am plenty old enough

 

[Pavehawk]

No explanation for the fact that you said you were 20 in a recent post, which undermines pretty much everything you posted in this thread?

And it is pretty obvious EMTs can have a paragod complex too.

You go girl... :beerchug:

 

[DrParasite]

No explanation for the fact that you said you were 20 in a recent post, which undermines pretty much everything you posted in this thread?

oops, that should be 30. see what happens when you don't proofread your age on a post that you send at 2am.......

 

[NYMedic828]

oops, that should be 30. see what happens when you don't proofread your age on a post that you send at 2am.......

Not to take sides but, 30-15= 15. You Can't be an EMT at 15.

 

[Aidey]

In some states you can start EMT class at 15, as long as you turn 16 within a certain amount of time after finishing.

That being said, I think people are going to need a lot of convincing for Dr. Parasite to get any credibility back.

 

[nocoderob]

oops, that should be 30. see what happens when you don't proofread your age on a post that you send at 2am.......

So you have been an EMT since you were 15? Interesting. Didn't think one could be 15, an EMT, and work on an ambulance.

 

[Jambi]

Some places have explorer programs, but do you all think it legitimate to include explorer time as true experience or time-in-field?

 

[JPINFV]

Some places have explorer programs, but do you all think it legitimate to include explorer time as true experience or time-in-field?

You mean I can't include volunteer time to my experience as a "physician" (even though I'm a 3rd year medical student)?

 

[Jambi]

You mean I can't include volunteer time to my experience as a "physician" (even though I'm a 3rd year medical student)?

Well, It's my opinion that such time shouldn't be included. I was just talking to a guy that told be he had 17 years in the fire service, but was including 8 years as an explorer and volunteer. I don't think it counts and to include it is at best disingenuous, and at worst fraudulent.

On a side note: People that try and buff their experience is such ways are compensating for something...:lol:

 

[nocoderob]

Some places have explorer programs, but do you all think it legitimate to include explorer time as true experience or time-in-field?

Nope. Thats just one step above staying at a Holiday Inn Express:lol:

Well, It's my opinion that such time shouldn't be included. I was just talking to a guy that told be he had 17 years in the fire service, but was including 8 years as an explorer and volunteer. I don't think it counts and to include it is at best disingenuous, and at worst fraudulent.

On a side note: People that try and buff their experience is such ways are compensating for something...:lol:

I think a volly should count as you are actually "working" albeit for free or little compensation.

 

[Bullets]

Some places have explorer programs, but do you all think it legitimate to include explorer time as true experience or time-in-field?

In the great state of NJ you could have started the EMT program at 15 as long as you turn 16 by the time the course was scheduled to end. Most squads around here have cadet programs for members 14+.

Our squad has 3 cadets, all of which are currently 17 but obtained a CPR card at 15 and rode jobs as a 3rd person. They are allowed to perform CPR but are generally "gophers" and "pilots" at that age. However they do get to see the pointy end of prehospital care at a young age. Our insurance company requires drivers to be 21 to be covered, so in theory if you start at 15 1/2 yrs old, you are running calls 6 1/2 years before you touch the steering wheel. You could be primary care provider for 4 years

The state has since changed the rules and now you must be 16 at the start of the program, but i know a few high school that offer the EMT course as an elective for gym/health class as a junior or senior

Would you say that this would not count towards your experience?

 

[Handsome Robb]

Hey Rob, I will take his beer. And yes, I am plenty old enough

Deal, would you like the both of them? But only because we have the same name :lol:

 

[NYMedic828]

Deal, would you like the both of them? But only because we have the same name :lol:

Its beer not a twix bar!

 

[Jambi]

Would you say that this would not count towards your experience?

It depends. It's different than working 2000/hrs a year or more, thus I wouldn't count 4 years of cadet/volunteer work as 4 years of experience, but rather prorate it based on number of hours worked. To do anything else is a misrepresentation.

If I'm talking to a 30 year old (since that's the popular number today) and he or she tells me that he or she has 15 years of experience, I'm going to be suspicious. It would be more correct to say I have 10, or, 11, or 12 years of experience, with 4, or 5, years of explorer/volunteer work before that.

I'm a skeptic because people often throw around years of experience like a bully instead of relying on demonstrated competence and reputation. This MO is especially rampant among members of unions...(yes I belong to a union, so no freaking out)