What happened?

[emt_basic_newbie]

My friend said his rotation went well except for one thing. They had a woman who came in from a MVC and my friend said there was blood from head to toe. He did an EKG, BVM, and suctioned. He said he noticed vitals going down and he eventually got bumped out of the room [he said the room was filled with people]. He ended up getting asked to do other things and never did got to see what ended up happening. He tried asked but no one would answer him but he did moral was down. Family ended up coming in and they were hysterical and the door was closed. Shift ended up being over and the door was still closed and the family was gone and he wasn't allowed to go in. What do you think happened because we have no idea.

 

[akflightmedic]

The patient died.

 

[Ridryder911]

Are you addressing this to anyone or maybe specific to someone on this forum that was there?

Technically, since I was not there, I do not know? I would assume, the worst. Family viewing patient (body) closed door sessions, does not describe a good outcome. If I was a betting man, I would assume the patient died.

R/r 911

 

[SwissEMT]

. What do you think happened because we have no idea.

This isn't a serious question, right?

 

[firecoins]

I wasn't there. I have no idea. Best guess, this person died. Are you seriously asking?

 

[JPINFV]

What do you think happened because we have no idea.

As with above, I'm placing money that the patient was turfed to the eternal care unit. What is strange, though, was that your "friend" was placed out of the loop. When ever I was in the ER (volunteering, or during my EMT-B clinical) and a patient arrested (granted, these patients normally entered the ER in asystole vs deteriorating after arriving) I ended up helping bag the body.

 

[MedicPrincess]

lots of blood....suction....BVM.....not allowed back in room....yea, sounds like that one's dead.

Now, as to your "friend" getting bumped from the room. Tell your friend next time something like that comes in, get into a position in the room where he won't get bumped. If he's doing a task that someone else takes over....go hug a wall, out of the way, but still able to observe.

If I would have let myself get pushed out of a room everytime it started to fill up, I'd have never saw anything.

 

[Ridryder911]

If he was "bumped" from the room, there probably was a reason. I personally remove students from the room sometimes when the family wants to view the body, etc.

Many family members do not want to see students or matter of fact very many people in there. I usually limit only myself and maybe the Chaplain or Counselor.

As well, sometimes there is events and things we do not want or other medical personal that want students to view. I know many times surgeons are very picky on whom is allowed to view or even be in the room, especially if there is a crowd.

There is tact and a way to be able to achieve your objectives and observe, learning it is the hard part, but you will find out with experience the way to do it successfully.

R/r 911

 

[mikie]

My friend said his rotation went well except for one thing. They had a woman who came in from a MVC and my friend said there was blood from head to toe. He did an EKG, BVM, and suctioned. He said he noticed vitals going down and he eventually got bumped out of the room [he said the room was filled with people]. He ended up getting asked to do other things and never did got to see what ended up happening. He tried asked but no one would answer him but he did moral was down. Family ended up coming in and they were hysterical and the door was closed. Shift ended up being over and the door was still closed and the family was gone and he wasn't allowed to go in. What do you think happened because we have no idea.

If you want us to actually examine the possibilities (no way of us actually knowing the cause of death, if so), we need more details.

-specific MOI & details from the scene of the MVC
-History
-Initial assessment
-Vitals
-Other important details

 

[Ridryder911]

Doesn't really matter... MVC+BVM+ copious bleeding= Death from trauma. Really, one does not need to know or the why's on such case. If trauma was severe was enough to kill someone; then it does not matter what the exact cause was.

The reason why traumatic arrest is not worked or have any good outcomes.

Usually polytrauma, head/chest injuries is the majority of the cause, yet again it does not matter.

R/r 911

 

[mikie]

Doesn't really matter...

You're probably right, I was just trying to help him out, maybe 'turn' it into a scenario (no disrespect to the pt/family)

 

[BossyCow]

If you want to know what happened to the pt. ask your medical officer, or supervisor to get a pt outcome report from the attending physician. Either that or your MPD should be able to go over the call with you.

You will have to show that you want this information for a valid reason and not just morbid curiosity. For every question you ask, you may be asked one back. Questions like.. "Did you...? Why didn't you......If you saw this... why didn't or did you do that...." Be prepared to answer those questions honestly, even if the honest answer is.. "Gee.. I forgot.. I didn't think of that.. or my personal favorite... Oh :censored:!!." Admitting to ignorance/stupidity is the only way to overcome it.

I personally have 'bumped' people from the room. I will support anyone who is trying to learn more and gain more insight into EMS. But, I have also found a certain number of newbies who see it as a sort of spectator sport.

 

[Ops Paramedic]

Sounds a bit "Hush-hush" to me. Was the patient not perhaps a celebrity or a VIP of some sorts??

As for being bumped out, your student friend should have briefed somewhere along the line with regards what to do and where to be during a resuscitation, in order not to step on anyone's toes... The best place to be, should you want to observe, in a trauma resuscitation in the ER, is to perform manual c-spine control. From there you can observe the entire process, and should not be bumped out the way.

I would also have to agree with the other posts, that the patient died (Most likely).

 

[pumper12fireman]

If he was "bumped" from the room, there probably was a reason. I personally remove students from the room sometimes when the family wants to view the body, etc.

Many family members do not want to see students or matter of fact very many people in there. I usually limit only myself and maybe the Chaplain or Counselor.

As well, sometimes there is events and things we do not want or other medical personal that want students to view. I know many times surgeons are very picky on whom is allowed to view or even be in the room, especially if there is a crowd.

There is tact and a way to be able to achieve your objectives and observe, learning it is the hard part, but you will find out with experience the way to do it successfully.

R/r 911

I couldn't agree more. There are many times where as students observing or working a scene, need to realize that the family does not need a crowd observing their grief (assuming the pt. is dead).

 

[CFRBryan347768]

lots of blood....suction....BVM.....not allowed back in room....yea, sounds like that one's dead.

Now, as to your "friend" getting bumped from the room. Tell your friend next time something like that comes in, get into a position in the room where he won't get bumped. If he's doing a task that someone else takes over....go hug a wall, out of the way, but still able to observe.

If I would have let myself get pushed out of a room everytime it started to fill up, I'd have never saw anything.

SO TRUE!!! they ended up kicking my 2 partners out with a similar situation for me=]]

 

[REMSI Medic 10]

Whenever there is a DOA with my agency, if the family wan't to be able to view the body they can. The DOA we ran a week or so ago we had the body in the ambulance and allowed a preacher and and some of the family who arrived late were allowed about 20 minutes to hold a memorial/prayer service before we transported him to the funeral home