"We are going to go together"

Personally I would have done what Sasha did, then at the end given the woman a number or card (I sometimes have the cards on the ambulance) to some place that could give her some assistance. As stated most hospice care places have grief counselors to take care of this. I wouldn't have outright taken her in for a 72 hour hold on suicide watch, but I would have made sure SOMEONE was aware of it. If during the course of the conversation she alluded more to actually commiting suicide after their loved one dies. I probably would have gone through the process of getting her a 72 hour hold which involves contacting a local PD unit and taking her to a psych unit.
 
re

Not on topic with the main question, but part of the main topic. Did this strike anyone in a strange way?

"Valid DNR, per doctor he was allowed to have 2 LPM via NC."

I'm not sure about everyone else but i would give this guy whatever O2 needed to make him comfortable. In hospital the Doc can do what he wants but once in my care i treat the patient based on his presentation. If something as simple as increasing his O2 is going to make his seemingly last minutes on earth more more tolerable, why on earth would any health care practitioner withhold it.
 
Hypothetical situation for you Corky. You switch over to a NRB during transport. Arrive at the residence and find that they only have a oxygen concentrator that only goes to 5 LPM. With out a "X flow rate is appropriate" order, what do you do? Also, you have insurance reimbursement issues if you don't have an order for home oxygen, which was what that could be.
 
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Aside from that I've got absolutely no education or training in crisis management or counseling etc. am not qualified to do anything more than to listen and offer her a 4x4 when she cries (in the absence of tissues.)

...and told her what was going on. She is more able to get the woman in contact with the resources she needs and also to talk to her about what is going on than I am.

Sounds pretty impeccable to me, Sasha!

In things having to do with the heart (in this case the woman's heart was wounded), all you have to do is respond from exactly where you're at. You understood your shortcomings (and here, Mr. Medic comes a standing ovation!), yet you didn't deny her human contact just because you're not Crisis trained. Ultimately, in cases like this, the most potent tool in your bag of tricks is just being there.

And...you followed through on your own judgment by making the Nurse aware. Once again, Bravo!

Betcha a buck you end up getting more crisis intervention training! (Great object lesson for us all, here...thanks!)
 
I'm not sure about everyone else but i would give this guy whatever O2 needed to make him comfortable. In hospital the Doc can do what he wants but once in my care i treat the patient based on his presentation. If something as simple as increasing his O2 is going to make his seemingly last minutes on earth more more tolerable, why on earth would any health care practitioner withhold it.

Aside from the reasons JP mentioned, when a patient is actively dying or in the end stages of disease, they are going to feel like they have SOB whether they are on 2 or 20LPM of O2. Their bodies are shutting down. I sometimes feel that the O2 is more for the family's benefit than the patiients.

I was horrified when I started hospice transfers and a patient was on 15LPM NRB and the hospice nurses put them on 2LPM NC. I couldn't imagine why they would do that, how heartless they must be, until I talked to others with more experience and they explained that to me. However they phrased it a lot better than I did!
 
WOW great posting and something to think about!
My mom died in hospice 3 years ago when I was 24( just finishing medic school) I am not sure what the correct answer to this is, I would love to hear more feedback on the matter though.
 
EMS is never black and white, sometimes you have to overstep your bounds whether it be pt advocacy or informing somone of the information you have received, such as the wife in this situation. Simply letting it slide could mean the difference between this woman continuing on in a productive manner or losing the will to live. Im willing to risk and I have, the complaint if it opens someones eyes to the problem their family member may be facing.

I also believe Sasha handled this difficult situation the right way.

Where did I say to let it slide? I simply said that I wouldn't talk to the family, I would inform someone else instead, like the hospice nurse. What Sasha did is exactly what I would have done.
 
Where did I say to let it slide? I simply said that I wouldn't talk to the family, I would inform someone else instead, like the hospice nurse. What Sasha did is exactly what I would have done.

I was speaking in general.
 
I know all too well what you are saying here. It is a valid concern, and one that should be taken on a case by case bases. I was not there, so a big part of the picture is unknown to the rest of us. What did your gut tell you? What was the look in her eyes? What was her body language? These are all things to think about when you are concerned aboiut something like this, and they will dictate what you need to do next. What what you said there was no direct statement indicating the patients consideration of intent to cause herself harm, but you never really know. We are all diferant and we all see things dfferantly. I once had a close freind when I was in the Marines who always seemed happy, but one day I knew something was very wrong. I had that feeling you know. I did nothing becasue I did not know wht to do. That night she slit her wrist and me and another Marine found her in a pool. After several days she was released from the Naval Hospital and soon she was discharged. It was a close call; another few minutes who knows. She never made a direct statement either, but she knew enough to cut herself in a way that would have got the job done. All I am saying is trust your instincts in a situation like this one, and take it one case at a time. Also, find someone over you (a supervisor at the station, a Dr, Nurse, etc.) and tell them, and aslo document it. It may be nothing at all, or it may be something you never forget.
 
Search "suicidality" and see other threads.

..............b)
 
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