UK Boy Dies as Ambulance Crew Takes Tea Break

Should EMS crews be given breaks when they can't be sent on calls?

  • No, EMS crews are paid to work, they should get no breaks

    Votes: 1 2.0%

  • Yes, everyone should get a break, for food, tea, or nature breaks

    Votes: 7 13.7%

  • Yes, they should be given breaks, but their breaks can be interrupted if a call comes in

    Votes: 43 84.3%
  • Total voters
    51
DrParasite

DrParasite

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UK Boy Dies as Ambulance Crew Takes Tea Break

GRIEVING parents are demanding a public inquiry after their three-year-old son died while one ambulance crew took a tea break and another got lost trying to find their home.
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Ambulance chiefs last night apologised to the family and admitted the call took so long to answer be cause one crew based about 10 minutes away were on a break.
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"We don't want to blame individuals because the rules say they are entitled to their break, that is what the law says.
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The Scottish Ambulance Service said: "All NHS staff are entitled to an undisturbed break during their operational shift.
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http://www.emsworld.com/article/article.jsp?id=17199&siteSection=1
 
While I believe it's important for an ambulance crew to have a break, I just think it's unreasonable to have breaks that can't be interrupted, unless of course there's a back up crew to cover the crew on break.
 
It sounds like there was a back up crew but they couldn't find the house and were further away. I wonder if a first responder type program would have made a difference in this instance.
 
The way our break system works is this:
- In a twelve hour shift we are entitled to two 40 minute breaks between our 3 and 5th hours and 7 and 9th hours.
- During these periods we will be placed on a break where we are conditionally available. We can be utilized for Code 4 calls (highest priority) only, or if the deployment plan drops below minimum coverage we will be utilized for standby's at that point.
- If a break gets interrupted for a call during the first 30 mins of the break, then we are entitled to be placed back on a break from the beginning at the first opportunity. In the last ten minutes the break is considered complete.
- If we do not receive a break during the designated windows we are still entitled to the break, but the employer pays $15 per missed break in addition.
- If we are placed on a low priority call, standby or transfer during our meal window and servicing the call will take us outside the window without a break we may contact our Supervisor who can have Dispatch take us off the call if deployment will allow. (In fact we must contact our Sup to allow them the chance to facilitate breaks)
- We are not guaranteed return to our home station for a break. If we are on standby covering another station we can be placed on our break there. We are expected to bring our meal with us when deployed.
- If we choose to pick up our food we will be placed on our break while mobile. If you're quick you can usually avoid this and not have the timer start until you get to base.
- If we are hit with more than two hours of end of shift OT we are entitled under the employment standards act to a third break. Since we don't stay at work to take that extra break we're paid $10 for that break.

Generally on a good day we don't even notice our breaks. We get enough down time and no one is too worried about watching the clock. When we're getting slammed this policy may be the only way you can get a few minutes rest. Regardless of all this, if you get assigned a call, aside from a call to the Sup on the way, you're running that call, break or no break. :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: later if need be, (assigned a call inappropriately per policy) but you don't delay a call.
 
I'd have voted for "Yes, everyone gets a break, provided coverage is available".
From the article, it sounds as if the issue was one of insufficient coverage, not breaks. The underlying issue, of course, is unrealistic expectations of EMS and the unwillingness or inability of managers to make unpopular decisions.

The problems with pulling crews off their breaks for high-priority calls are that response priority isn't a great indicator of call severity and a break that can be interrupted is exactly what most 911 crews in my area have by default.

I think breaks are a great idea, and not just from an employee satisfaction standpoint. It's been my experience that crews that don't expect downtime will take their time clearing up from the ED or from a long transport in order to give themselves a break. Formalizing breaks won't eliminate this, of course, but it's a way to plan for it and justify disciplining people who make a habit of dragging out calls.
 
If we have a meal break here, it can be broken by a code 2A (non lights and sirens, get there without delay, i.e fractured leg, dislocated shoulder etc) or by a code 1. We get paid an allowance to go.

The only time we are put out of service is once we clear hospital/ a job after our finish time. We are then unavailable as we head back to station.

If the public want someone to blame it should be themselves for tying up ambulances with frivolous calls. Imagine the response times and outcomes for seriously ill people if 90% of ambulances werent taxi'ing people to hospital with the flu
 
We have no breaks. We do have a "lunch time" but it is not a set time. Any call that we get we have to respond to. I'll admit it sometimes if we are getting pounded by calls we will take a while to clear from the hospital. We only have 10 mins from when we arrive at the hospital till the time dispatch shows us clear. If they try giving us a call we can't respond because we can't hear dispatch inside the hospital so that is our break.
 
We get no breaks, but we have a long ride back from the hospital, and every time other than the middle of the night, that feels like a break, and if we're hungry, we stop and get something to eat. (To eat in the truck)

In a busy system, the Canadian break system described above seems like an abject nightmare for the dispatchers.

In the city where I used to work, they instituted a break system one year, which was laughable. The crews (on 12 or 16 hour shifts) were supposed to get a 20 minute break at some point during their shift. If they didn't get it, they received a $10 gift card to McD's, a gas station, or a grocery store. If all the crews got their break, the crew in the communications center got the gift cards. Talk about being setup for conflict!

Crews argued that their break didn't apply because of this reason or that, we were constantly pulling tapes to prove the crews were told about their breaks, to prove they really weren't spoken to on the radio...some crews even claimed that the break didn't count if they got a message on their pagers during the break.

The fact is, the system was overtaxed, the medics were overworked, and the break system was a joke.

I don't think official breaks belong in EMS, just that the system should be staffed well enough that those crazy days where you only have enough time to grad something to eat at the hospitals and never get anything else done but running calls should be few and far between.
 
abckidsmom said:
In a busy system, the Canadian break system described above seems like an abject nightmare for the dispatchers.
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I am in a busy system. Regional Municipality covering 9 municipalities, 1 million people and mixed urban, suburban and rural.

I don't think official breaks belong in EMS, just that the system should be staffed well enough that those crazy days where you only have enough time to grad something to eat at the hospitals and never get anything else done but running calls should be few and far between.
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Agreed, but without the requirements and penalties like those I listed then there is little motivation for a service to facilitate downtime.

That being said, the break system I described is just for my service and was negotiated between the Union and the Service. Some services have some piss poor agreements on breaks.
 
I didn't vote because I think it the situation depends on the particular service.

I work for a service that does 24 hr shifts, runs 911 calls and transfers. We have 3 crews (usually) working and cover 2/3 - 3/4 of our county. We have mutual aid with another service that covers the rest of the county.
Our Director finally convinced the Hospital Board to pay us for the full 24 hour shift. Prior we would not get paid for 4 hours in the middle of the night, unless we were running calls/transfers between 2 and 6am.

We don't have any "official" breaks. When we are up for call we are up for call. We work in down time and eating around calls. In the old pay system, there was definate "push back" about official breaks. Now, as we are getting paid for all 24 hours, I don't hear as much about official breaks.
 
Like Canada, New Zealand has very strict laws about such matters from a health and safety in employment and an industrial bargaining perspective. Our Employment Health and Safety Act mandates every employee get a break no matter what job they do, and the Ambulance Union fights for our Officers to the death tooth and nail to get good breaks and so they bloody well should.

Auckland Metro is the hub of about half of all Ambulance activity in New Zealand (just under 200,000 calls pa) and we get the same breaks as every other crew - i.e. two thirty minute paid breaks per 12 hour watch.

If a priority 1 job comes in we can be interrupted and sent to that job, then we can be sent to one other job straight after if it is also priority 1, but then we must be stood down for a break with no exceptions.

An additional resource is then deployed to cover our vehicle while it is on break, it might be a stretcher ambulance, motorcycle or Oscar/Tango (rapid responder).

Brown is very passionate about people getting adequate breaks on watch and between work periods, people need to be given adequate opportunity to rest, eat and sleep.

Brown must say after a quick search of the Fair Labour Standards Act, the OSHA and the Wage and Hour Division of OSHA.gov Brown is gobsmacked, there is no Federal provision for rest or meal breaks and a handful of states have a 10 minute per four hour rule.

New Zealand has 10 minutes per each 2.5 hours and Land Transport require 30 minutes per 5 hours for commercial drivers, which includes the Ambulance Service.

Brown is quite sickened.
 
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There are some folks on here who say we are no different from Joe who gets up in the morning and goes to his job at FedEx.

There are some who say we are less useful than sanitation workers.

So why should we not be entitled to the same breaks and working hours that they are? Why do we have to work 24 hour shifts? Why should we go for 12 hours straight without a chance to grab something to eat?

Not saying I disagree with the points above, I'm just curious as to if there's continuity in that line of thinking.
 
I assume the person who voted, the EMS crews are paid to work and shouldn't get breaks feels this way for every job.
 
I was having a quiet shift...11.00am and still no calls.
I go around the corner to the local cafe to buy some lunch...which included a large slice of cheesecake for myself and it looked so good, I got one for my partner too.

Just put the food on the table at the station and went to get some plates and our pagers go off.
Guess the break time was the quiet morning...less the food break.
:unsure:

Much hot food is left to go cold or chilled to get warm at ambulance stations tables around New Zealand, when you get a call.
 
Heh I always thought GETTING food was the trick to getting a call. I can have a quiet shift as long as I refuse to go get food
 
Lets not forget that paramedics are performing medical assessments, drug interventions and procedures on potentially critical patient. If I was ever in a abd way, I would prefer a rested and fed medic looking after me as supposed to a tired, fatigued and hungry person who hasnt stopped in 12 hours.

Everyone in their employment should be entitled to a meal break and food. Obviously due to the nature of EMS this is hard but systems should be in place to allow this, or compensate crews for not giving them their entitlements.

If we finish over and hour after our rostered time we get $13 allowance
If our meal break is broken we get $13 allowance
If we miss a meal break or don't finish it $13 allowance.

We have set meal windows. For a 7am-7pm shift its 1030-1pm and 2300-5pm. You get meal overtime if you do not receive your break in the window. It is worth single time/ x1 so you are effectively getting double time for working without a break.
 
firefite said:
We have no breaks. We do have a "lunch time" but it is not a set time. Any call that we get we have to respond to. I'll admit it sometimes if we are getting pounded by calls we will take a while to clear from the hospital. We only have 10 mins from when we arrive at the hospital till the time dispatch shows us clear. If they try giving us a call we can't respond because we can't hear dispatch inside the hospital so that is our break.
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Your sups don't get on you if you don't have your phone or pager?
 
Now that I have a little more time to reply, my company has a pretty nice break policy.

For a ten hour shift (turns out to be 11, because the breaks are unpaid) there are two half hour meal periods. One during the first 5.5 hours of the shift (but cannot be given during the first two hours) and one during the second 5.5 hours.

For 24s, we have the same two half hour breaks plus one hour long break. The first two fall in the same parameters as a ten hour shift, with the final break falling in the third 5.5 hour window.

If a break cannot be taken within it's 5.5 hour window, you are paid for all time worked plus a "meal premium" which is one hour of your hourly wage. You can only receive one meal premium per shift.

It seems like a pretty liberal break policy, but consider that we only get paid for 14 hours of our 24s unless calls are run at night (have to run a total of five hours in the final 9 hours of the shift to get paid for the full 24). So yes, we still try to milk calls as long as we can. Disgruntled employees = employees willing to hurt the company wherever they can.
 
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