Trouble with class/instructors

I read the first post, and a few of the replies - but I think I can see the problem (dunno if its been mentioned)


The book is the academic portion of your class. It presents how to do your job, and why. Its all the technical aspects of being an EMT (well not all, but you get my point)

When you are given a test, not only do they want you to answer questions like "What is a pneumothorax?" or "What dressing what you apply to an open chest wound", but they will present questions like

"You have been dispatched to a house in a bad neighborhood of town. Police have secured the scene. You find an unconscious 22 y/o male with a stab wound to the the third intercostal space. Vital signs are <insert set of vitals>. What would be your immediate intervention

A Manual Inline Stabilization
B Open airway with jaw-thrust
C Apply gloved hand to chest wound
D Retrieve SAMPLE history"

They want you to take what you learn and APPLY it. To correctly do this, you must know your material like the backside of your hand to be able to properly apply it to any scenario given to you. Many students in my class were pissed that the tests were like this (not directly related to the book).


If this doesn't answer your question- sorry, I tried. But as mentioned they want you to think outside, above, under, and around 'the box'. It's just how these classes are taught/tested. When you take national registry, it will be like the tests you are given now but more confusing.
 
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Im not sure how far in the course ( material wise) you are but if you have not yet learned medical and trauma assessments then I would start looking at the NR sheets on the NREMT website and read those sections in the book. Many questions whether it be on the NR test which i am studying for reciprocity, or in my case the MA EMT-B test follow the basic prinicple as followsl

BSI
scene safety
MOI
number of pts.
C-Spine
ALS

then go through your ABCs. there will be a great number of questions that relate back to those these things.

for example: You arrive on scene to find 22 y.o. male unconcious and bleeding from a laceration on the head. What do you do first to initial treatment?
A. Apply direct pressure to the wound.
B. Open his Airway with an OPA.
C. Begin IV therapy
D. Scene Safety.

The answer is D because personal safety takes precedent over pt. treatment.
(an i know Basics generally cannot give IV fluids i was just making a point)

Or You arrive on scene to find a pt. laying in bed not breathing. What is your first action in treating the pt?

A. Prepare for immediate Transport w. ALS intercept.
B. Remove the pillow from under his head.
C. Apply O2 at 15 lpm via BVM
D.Check his pulse.

The answer is B. Because although you need to do all of these, the rule of ABCs, airway comes first.

If you can learn these assessments to the point that they are second nature to you, then you will start to understand scenario questions with more ease.
 
Ok I will likely take some heat for this response but as people will find out about me I really do not worry about that. Also to the OP I mean no disrespect to you and your questions and I think questions are good and that you need to get this worked out and get your head around it.

There have been some very good suggestions posted for you. If I recall correctly you have passed all the tests so far but you do not seem happy with you scores and are concerned that you will not keep them up.

As a previous teacher I would tell you that your becoming to engrossed in this. You are passing and if you are learning from each module that is the goal, correct? What I found when I first took the EMT class is that at fist much of the material although I was memorizing it really did not make lots of sense to me. Then there came a time when something was taught or something heppened in a lab that tied things together and made the light bulb snap on.

So what I would say is number one relax. It sounds like this is really stressing you out and that stress will do more damage to your ability to learn the material. Second, if your still passing I would make less effort on trying to prove why you feel your right and more on learning why the answer is what it is. When you complete the EMT class you are still really just scratching the surface of trying to learn. You may know the material to get through the class and become licensed however you will still have a great deal to learn and likely you will learn every shift you work. I worked 6 years as an EMT-B and I was still learning when I left. I worked IFT's and a county 911 system. I worked in 2 different states. I worked Transport ambulances and non transport first response FD units. And every call was an opportunity to learn more.

Again, hope I have to offend you but it sounds to me like your progressing just fine and that if you see that and relax a little and learn why your answer was not what they were looking for that you will be just fine. :)
 
Sodapop said:
Ok I will likely take some heat for this response but as people will find out about me I really do not worry about that. Also to the OP I mean no disrespect to you and your questions and I think questions are good and that you need to get this worked out and get your head around it.

There have been some very good suggestions posted for you. If I recall correctly you have passed all the tests so far but you do not seem happy with you scores and are concerned that you will not keep them up.

As a previous teacher I would tell you that your becoming to engrossed in this. You are passing and if you are learning from each module that is the goal, correct? What I found when I first took the EMT class is that at fist much of the material although I was memorizing it really did not make lots of sense to me. Then there came a time when something was taught or something heppened in a lab that tied things together and made the light bulb snap on.

So what I would say is number one relax. It sounds like this is really stressing you out and that stress will do more damage to your ability to learn the material. Second, if your still passing I would make less effort on trying to prove why you feel your right and more on learning why the answer is what it is. When you complete the EMT class you are still really just scratching the surface of trying to learn. You may know the material to get through the class and become licensed however you will still have a great deal to learn and likely you will learn every shift you work. I worked 6 years as an EMT-B and I was still learning when I left. I worked IFT's and a county 911 system. I worked in 2 different states. I worked Transport ambulances and non transport first response FD units. And every call was an opportunity to learn more.

Again, hope I have to offend you but it sounds to me like your progressing just fine and that if you see that and relax a little and learn why your answer was not what they were looking for that you will be just fine. :)
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I agree
 
wannabeemtb said:
Hi all, I'm a first time poster, so if this in the wrong place, I'm sorry. Also, if this question has been answered elsewhere, sorry for the double post, I searched, I really did.

My names Ben, I'm 30 years old, and I recently started an EMT-B class.

I'm having a problem with the class/instructors. We're studying Prehospital Emergency Care, Ninth Edition by Mistovich/Karren published by Pearson. We've got the main book, a workbook, and access to a website with practice tests and games. We're taking a test at the end of each module. We're told that 70% is a passing grade, that we can take a test again if we fail the first time, but if we fail twice, we're dropped from the class, and that these are DOT standards. We're also told that we must pass one module before being allowed to continue on with the next module. We're usually given a 10% bonus for correctly labeling a diagram, so far of the heart, skeleton, etc...

My issue is that text seems to bear little relation to the test. The rules seem to be against giving specific examples in this forum, so I'll refrain. I've taken 3 module tests so far, and passed all three. The first I got a 94 (104 with bonus), the second 78 (88 with bonus), and the most recent 76 (most likely 86 with bonus).

I study for a minimum of eight hours before every test. I'm present for every class. I fill out my workbook. I take the practice test online multiple times. I've spoken with two instructors so far about my performance on the test. I've voiced my concern that the text bears little relation to the test. I've been told their's nothing they can do, it's just the way that it is. When I asked for additional resources to study to improve my grade, I was referred to Barnes and Noble to read guides they had there.

I'm very frustrated with this advice from my instructors. Being told that's just the way it is doesn't offer any sort of actionable information that I can glean, perhaps it's just some inside EMS code that I've not been taught yet? The Barnes and Noble advice, while actionable, is a dead end. The study guides are designed for the entire test, and I'd really need something that was targeted toward the module test I was taking.

My question to any of you who've read this far is what would you do in my situation? I want to be an EMT. I want to pass my module test. I'm willing to whatever work is required to do that, I just have no idea where to start. I don't know what I don't know.

Thanks for reading all this, felt good just to get it out there if nothing else.
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You need to read and reread your cognitive and psychomotor objectives. If you can say that you know the information, inside and out, covering all of the pre-chapter objectives AND the post chapter summary, then you will see an improvement in your testing.

the REASON that the text is different from the test questions is because the correct answer to any question on any EMS test is: Whatever will kill the emt or his patient first, ABC's, stabilization, and rapid transport. None of the test is rote memory, it is all application. The text is a BASELINE of knowledge. If you don't have the didactic information down, you will miss out on important signs and symptoms. If you have the knowledge hardwired, assessment, reason and logic guide you to the correct intervention.
 
I am also a very recent (3 weeks) EMT-B student - I can definitely understand where WannabeEMTB is - yes it's while each emergency will not be the same and each situation calls upon interpretation and application of the skills learned as a student we are looking for something concrete (althought some situations are not) - we need to build a foundation of concrete knowledge in order to apply it in situations.

as with the martial arts we must learn to punch and kick before we put them together to defend against an attacker.

if the text books states one thing as a health concern to females and then on the test that is not the answer - i think that's a problem.

it's like some text books say the air we exhale is 16% oxygen - i think the AHA CPR handbook says 17% oxygen - and if this is on the test which one should we go with?

As a student we need that concrete information and within that we need to apply it - i think getting our EMT-B certification is a beginning not an end to education.

it's like martial arts (yup again martial arts) it's only after you get your black belt do you begin to learn - anything before the black belt is just building your foundation.

but i had hoped my class would be a little more challenging than it is.
 
I'm currently halfway through my Paramedic program. Our text book goes into GREATER (like M.D. level) detail than what our program requires. It's a great resource for information but if you are struggling with the exams/tests... My advice is to take notes based upon the material your instructor reviews during lecture. Learning this technique has significantly improved my test taking skills vs. the test taking skills I had going through my basic. The information your instructor reviews during lecture whether it be via PowerPoint, Handouts, etc. is more than likely going to be on your exam/test. Try not to sweat the textbook to much. Refer to it to clarify information you don't understand. I hope this helps and good luck!
 
EMT_TIFFANY said:
I'm currently halfway through my Paramedic program. Our text book goes into GREATER (like M.D. level) detail than what our program requires. It's a great resource for information but if you are struggling with the exams/tests... My advice is to take notes based upon the material your instructor reviews during lecture. Learning this technique has significantly improved my test taking skills vs. the test taking skills I had going through my basic. The information your instructor reviews during lecture whether it be via PowerPoint, Handouts, etc. is more than likely going to be on your exam/test. Try not to sweat the textbook to much. Refer to it to clarify information you don't understand. I hope this helps and good luck!
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it's weird how each class differs. the exams my class takes are straight from the textbook - although they give us handouts to grow our knowledge. you would think across the country there should be one standard curriculum along with your local protocols.
 
Doesn't look like Wannabe has checked this thread in a bit, but I'll throw in my spare change.

I'm also an EMT-B student. My class seems a lot like yours (except that we must be >80% to pass, and no 'extra credit') Our tests also seem very similar. I am with you in thinking "that's just how it is" is not an appropriate answer to your concerns.

The difference between us, however, is that I actually appreciate how the tests here are run. Many of the questions presented in the test seem to be 'trick questions,' but my instructor told us right up front that they were going to do that. The point it to make you think (sometimes pretty damn hard) about the best answer.

I havent had any 'field time' per say, but from what I understand, our teachers are doing this in order to help you get in to the appropriate mindset. When you are on a rig responding to a call, there will likely be ALOT of diffrent things that you could do, and you need to be able to know which one you should be doing.

Does that make it harder? Darn right. Should it be harder? Heck yes. Think about if I were the one to show up at your house during a medical emergency. You would want to be sure that I knew wth I was doing. But I digress.

I think it is awesome that you are looking for other sources of information, but everything on your test is very likely to be in your book. Other sources, while valuable for practical experience, are only likely to confuse you when the answer that you are looking for was in your book (even if it's not the answer you though it was.)

I guess my point here is that, IMO, the goal is to make you a decent EMT and not just for you to be able to pass an EMT-B class. There are many Medics on these boards that can likely attest to the difference.
 
Radioactive said:
Doesn't look like Wannabe has checked this thread in a bit, but I'll throw in my spare change.

I'm also an EMT-B student. My class seems a lot like yours (except that we must be >80% to pass, and no 'extra credit') Our tests also seem very similar. I am with you in thinking "that's just how it is" is not an appropriate answer to your concerns.

The difference between us, however, is that I actually appreciate how the tests here are run. Many of the questions presented in the test seem to be 'trick questions,' but my instructor told us right up front that they were going to do that. The point it to make you think (sometimes pretty damn hard) about the best answer.

I havent had any 'field time' per say, but from what I understand, our teachers are doing this in order to help you get in to the appropriate mindset. When you are on a rig responding to a call, there will likely be ALOT of diffrent things that you could do, and you need to be able to know which one you should be doing.

Does that make it harder? Darn right. Should it be harder? Heck yes. Think about if I were the one to show up at your house during a medical emergency. You would want to be sure that I knew wth I was doing. But I digress.

I think it is awesome that you are looking for other sources of information, but everything on your test is very likely to be in your book. Other sources, while valuable for practical experience, are only likely to confuse you when the answer that you are looking for was in your book (even if it's not the answer you though it was.)

I guess my point here is that, IMO, the goal is to make you a decent EMT and not just for you to be able to pass an EMT-B class. There are many Medics on these boards that can likely attest to the difference.
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i agree with you 100%.. i wish my class was more thought provoking.
 
EMTBWannabe said:
it's weird how each class differs. the exams my class takes are straight from the textbook - although they give us handouts to grow our knowledge. you would think across the country there should be one standard curriculum along with your local protocols.
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There is a standard. Albiet, the guideline portions leave room to flex, it is up to the institution and / state to use them right.
 
EMTBWannabe said:
it's weird how each class differs. the exams my class takes are straight from the textbook - although they give us handouts to grow our knowledge. you would think across the country there should be one standard curriculum along with your local protocols.
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Why should there be one specific curriculum for EMT-B courses? One set of minimum standards? Sure, but for example, there are at least 3 styles of curriculum (traditional, systems based, problem based) for medical school, not counting hybrid designs. Yet all medical students either take USMLE or COMLEX (or both) depending on their school's philosophy (MD v DO). If there was one standard curriculum that all programs must adhere to, does that mean that if a program has extra resources to incorporate additional materials or work for other learning styles that they shouldn't or couldn't without a wavier?
 
What the gentleman is asking for is consistency. This is not unreasonable or exceptional in any situation. Are your instructors writing the tests themselves or using the ones that come with the book?
 
bstone said:
What the gentleman is asking for is consistency. This is not unreasonable or exceptional in any situation. Are your instructors writing the tests themselves or using the ones that come with the book?
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Creating a bank of test questions isn't easy when considering objectives, subject materials, levels of learning, validation and cross checking. Validating a question alone, can take months. The time it takes to create a good test sure makes generators a blessing!
 
study the states protocols,and compentencies. Know everything you can possibly know about EMTB and I would say go as far as knowing even some EMTI material for the sake of knowledge. Know your critical failure points in any exams,know your medications well. And finally,remember finally exams,questions,scenarios aren't all "knowledge" you really have to read questions and interpet,analyze and pick the "best" answer. goodluck.

cheers
 
bstone said:
Are your instructors writing the tests themselves or using the ones that come with the book?
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Have no idea where they get questions but my instructors used to type they own, ending up with heavy typos (spell-check anyone?) and then wrong test results and messy review sessions. :wacko:
 
EMTBWannabe said:
if the text books states one thing as a health concern to females and then on the test that is not the answer - i think that's a problem.
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Without knowing the exact wording it's hard to gauge, but chances are the test question tricked him. The book presented an extra piece of information, and he and everyone else in the class focused on it rather than the answer to the question.

The "what do you do first" examples above are good illustrations of how that happens.

The idea is to develop critical thinking skills, not just regurgitate memorized information.
 
We are using the same book but the 11th edition in my class. The workbook quizzes seem to jive with the text but the test questions are not. We were told that the tests questions are randomly generated by the the Brady software.

When our asst. instructor looked at the mid-term, she agreed the test was crap and agreed to hand select each of the 200 questions for the final, by hand, assuring more relativity.
 
JPINFV said:
Why should there be one specific curriculum for EMT-B courses? One set of minimum standards? Sure, but for example, there are at least 3 styles of curriculum (traditional, systems based, problem based) for medical school, not counting hybrid designs. Yet all medical students either take USMLE or COMLEX (or both) depending on their school's philosophy (MD v DO). If there was one standard curriculum that all programs must adhere to, does that mean that if a program has extra resources to incorporate additional materials or work for other learning styles that they shouldn't or couldn't without a wavier?
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There is a National Registry of EMTs isn't there? That's one specific set of standard of knowledge for those who decide to take the national registry. the national registry isn't studying all 50 states protocols - it's a non-state non-regional set of standards.

don't you think?

each state, even down to the city level has their own set of protocols. i think it's weird.
 
EMTBWannabe said:
There is a National Registry of EMTs isn't there? That's one specific set of standard of knowledge for those who decide to take the national registry. the national registry isn't studying all 50 states protocols - it's a non-state non-regional set of standards.

don't you think?

each state, even down to the city level has their own set of protocols. i think it's weird.
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It's not weird.

There is a difference (and it is a big difference) between the modality of treatment and the knowledge required to treat.

Guidelines, protocols or standing orders whatever you work to or from are fairly generic and cross jurisdictionally nonspecific. A seizure is a seizure and will respond to midazolam the same down the street or on the other side of world just like if you zap somebody in VF the effect of cardioversion is no different wherever you are.

Legislatory and regulatory frameworks differ from one jurisdiction to another; California is quite tightly legislated and each EMSA has thier own standing orders whereas in the UK the Joint Royal Colleges Ambulance Liason Committee has establishes the guidelines UK Paramedics work from. There is also disagreement between medical directors as to the objectivity and validity of evidence and as such you get variation between protocol, guideline or standing order.

The modality of treatment is very narrow requiring little knowledge and a high degree of dexterious skill e.g. draw up midazolam and administer, how to size a hard collar while the cognitive knowledge required to make good functional linkages and use the modalities of treatment is somewhat more substantive.

A good example is chest pain and GTN; sure you can be a protocol monkey and give everybody with chest pain some sublingual GTN but if you have are a thinking and well educated Paramedic you know to check for signs of a right ventricular infarct first.

The National Registry is attemtping to ensure that people have the knowledge to be proficent, thinking, clinically sound Paramedics and not just protocol monkeys.

If you have the right knowledge the specifics of a modality of treatment is really fairly benign and should not be an issue if your guideline changes because you moved from jurisdiction A to jurisdiction B.
 
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