I did a transport today, 63 y/o male, status post CVA w/ left sided deficits. Pt was returning home. There were 29 steps to get Pt into his house. 4 flights of 7 steps. Pt weights 250lbs. I think the safest way for the EMS providers and for the Pt was a 4 man lift with the stair chair. Others believe this to be a waste of a 2nd truck as being able to carry a 250lb person up 28 steps is something that 2 providers should be able to handle. What do you think??? Am I being lazy, or am I right in wanting to do this the safest way possible. Also, does anyknow how big city EMS works... Can you request fire assistance, or is it just you and your partner? The firedepartment refused to help due to us being a private company.
The stair chair
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Buzz
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I think two people should have been able to handle it, but why risk dropping the patient?
We strapped one of our guys (said he weighed a little over 250) into a stair chair while learning how to use it in class and then proceeded to move him up and down three flights of stairs in the building. Most of us handled it just fine in pairs, but there was someone else in the group who was having some problems so we altered the plan a little to accommodate them.
We strapped one of our guys (said he weighed a little over 250) into a stair chair while learning how to use it in class and then proceeded to move him up and down three flights of stairs in the building. Most of us handled it just fine in pairs, but there was someone else in the group who was having some problems so we altered the plan a little to accommodate them.
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I agree that 2 people can handle it, but if you have the extra personnel sitting at station, why not lessen the risk of back injury and the Pt being dropped? I dont like our stairchairs. We have the old metal ones with the low backs. there are not handles for the person at the feet, and being 6'3 you really have to be hunched over. it woulda been nice just for some extra help i guess
you could probably do the lift with 2 people, but if there's extra hands around, might as well make use of them and decrease the chances of injury. Not sure whether you can request FF assistance, guess it depends on the working relationship between EMS and FD in your area. Here to certify in EMS, you have to be able to carry an 80kg. (think thats around 180 lbs) mannequin up and down 2 flights of stairs, so anything more than that, I'd imagine there'd be no problem with asking for backup if needed.
KEVD18
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mass standards require each emt to be able to lift 125lb/ea. of course, the chair it self is not factored into the equation. so, by my regs, thats a two person lift.
could we ask for a second truck, sure. are we going to get it, 50/50.
fire assistyance, for a emergency carry down absolutely. for a nonemergent carry up s/p discharge, if i bothered the boston fire dept for that i would be shot.
could we ask for a second truck, sure. are we going to get it, 50/50.
fire assistyance, for a emergency carry down absolutely. for a nonemergent carry up s/p discharge, if i bothered the boston fire dept for that i would be shot.
we did it with 2, but we just though that with the known information prior to the transport (250lbs, 30 steps) that 2 trucks may have been more appropriate. it worked out well. its nice to know that some EMT programs out there require some physical abilities of their students. PA anyone can get through this program. they dont even require time on the bus or ER time.
Airwaygoddess
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Well I I have to say is this, the stair chair is not one of my first favorites, but it does has it's place as far as patient moving gear. It might be a good idea to just practice with a couple of co-workers with the stair chair. It feels awkward to work with, but if your partner works with you on it, it's not too bad. Are you serious, because you work for a private company, FD will not come to help you with a lift assist!! Well hell I don't think that is right!
Ridryder911
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Okay, we all have proved ourselves.. Popeye has nothing on us... Now, let's be smart and realistic... Why place ourselves in jeopardy? Why risks your career? You know what you call a medic with a bad back? .. A former employee.
For as the F.D. I would definitely, make a comment to the Chief, as well as to the patient and family. I am sure that a news crew would love to hear how the lovely local heroes would not assist in one of their citizens, meanwhile I am sure they were late either pumping iron or watching Oprah.
Sorry, I am tired of hearing turf wars, when it should be about the patient and not about ego's.
Let's start protecting ourselves, backs, careers and quit worrying about egos.
R/r 911
For as the F.D. I would definitely, make a comment to the Chief, as well as to the patient and family. I am sure that a news crew would love to hear how the lovely local heroes would not assist in one of their citizens, meanwhile I am sure they were late either pumping iron or watching Oprah.
Sorry, I am tired of hearing turf wars, when it should be about the patient and not about ego's.
Let's start protecting ourselves, backs, careers and quit worrying about egos.
R/r 911
I was actually about to ask what everyone carries. We have the Stryker chairs and they are a blessing. Easily maneuverable with only one person, they glide gently down the stairs with ease...............
firetender
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Just a thought from someone who's looking at the profession that really is a business and wondering where do the medics themselves have rights to set limits and boundaries so their lives aren't torn to shreds by the work.
Like right here...THIS IS A TRIP HOME! In an emergency you righfully improvise and work with whom and what you have and get the job done. Some of us get hurt. It's part of the job.
But transporting a stable patient home does not justify setting yourself up for injury. Forget about the fact that you can't tip a Cabbie enough to carry a 250 lb. debilitated person up twenty-nine stairs.
I believe in a non-emergency we should have the right to refuse to put ourselves in jeopardy until we can enlist others to share a bit of the burden. What a selfish thing to say, after all we ARE a helping profession!
But what happened to you?
The FIRE DEPT. PERSONNEL EXERCISED THEIR RIGHT TO NOT JEOPARDIZE THEMSELVES out of the description of their jobs.
They can do that, why can't we?
Like right here...THIS IS A TRIP HOME! In an emergency you righfully improvise and work with whom and what you have and get the job done. Some of us get hurt. It's part of the job.
But transporting a stable patient home does not justify setting yourself up for injury. Forget about the fact that you can't tip a Cabbie enough to carry a 250 lb. debilitated person up twenty-nine stairs.
I believe in a non-emergency we should have the right to refuse to put ourselves in jeopardy until we can enlist others to share a bit of the burden. What a selfish thing to say, after all we ARE a helping profession!
But what happened to you?
The FIRE DEPT. PERSONNEL EXERCISED THEIR RIGHT TO NOT JEOPARDIZE THEMSELVES out of the description of their jobs.
They can do that, why can't we?
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Ridryder911
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We have the Ferno stair chairs, I do wish we had the Strykers... I do doubt that we will get any more Stryker products. We have their power cots.. Personally, a God-send, but unfortunately, they still have plenty of bugs.. and hard to get Stryker to ad knowledge or know what the problems are yet...
R/r 911
R/r 911
medic258
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Stair chairs
It is kinda funny this was brought up. I had to do something very similar a couple of weeks ago. My partner and I were sent to d/c a 350 lb patient from a local elderly warehouse. It turns out my partner has picked her up before and she(my partner) advised our supervisor we would need an assist. The issue was as we were transportiing another call came in so our other truck had to take the call, which left us high and dry. so I had the dispatcher tone out for an engine company to assist us. We got no response after a couple of re-tones I decided to call a mutual aid ambulance from a neighboring fire department. Long story short, not only did the mutual aid company arrive promptly the EMT's were fantastic. No lip (which was a big shock) and the Lt. told us to ask for an engine and they would send extra personnel if necessary.
As for those new stair chairs, they work great going down stairs. Not so great going up, IMHO.
It is kinda funny this was brought up. I had to do something very similar a couple of weeks ago. My partner and I were sent to d/c a 350 lb patient from a local elderly warehouse. It turns out my partner has picked her up before and she(my partner) advised our supervisor we would need an assist. The issue was as we were transportiing another call came in so our other truck had to take the call, which left us high and dry. so I had the dispatcher tone out for an engine company to assist us. We got no response after a couple of re-tones I decided to call a mutual aid ambulance from a neighboring fire department. Long story short, not only did the mutual aid company arrive promptly the EMT's were fantastic. No lip (which was a big shock) and the Lt. told us to ask for an engine and they would send extra personnel if necessary.
As for those new stair chairs, they work great going down stairs. Not so great going up, IMHO.
burntbob
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Kill Batteries not Backs
It's still amazing that the ambulance industry thinks paramedics are expendable resources and we let them get away with it. Lots of other places on the planet have OH&S legislation with teeth and making it worth the industry's while to come up with workable minumum lift solutions to many problems we face. There are power stair chairs, stretcher lifts and many other tools that could be common place. Hers an example-
http://www.hercules.com.au/pt_range.htm
Whay hasn't F**** or S***** EMS suppliers brought these to North America?
Paramedics shouldn't have to "retire" injured at a young age with blown out backs and torn out shoulders and knees from lifts that we really didn't need to do.
Whats the cost of of lifelong disability to the medic, their family, the health care system, insurance system ,lost earnings, against a good mechanical solution?
It's still amazing that the ambulance industry thinks paramedics are expendable resources and we let them get away with it. Lots of other places on the planet have OH&S legislation with teeth and making it worth the industry's while to come up with workable minumum lift solutions to many problems we face. There are power stair chairs, stretcher lifts and many other tools that could be common place. Hers an example-
http://www.hercules.com.au/pt_range.htm
Whay hasn't F**** or S***** EMS suppliers brought these to North America?
Paramedics shouldn't have to "retire" injured at a young age with blown out backs and torn out shoulders and knees from lifts that we really didn't need to do.
Whats the cost of of lifelong disability to the medic, their family, the health care system, insurance system ,lost earnings, against a good mechanical solution?
We still carry the old high back ferno chair. They seem to be unavailable nowadays as compartment space is so limited.
So when we tried to use one of the new short back(backbreaker)chairs in the industrial plant where i work on my day job, what a mess. The wheels stuck in the grating, 10 flights of stars, (no elevators).
I then ordered a refrigerator dolly. A few hr. in the weld shop, and the ERT Team is in love with it. We practice with it all the time.
(i will add a pic if i can find one).
Now as for the OP, and bringing someone up, If at all possible i would look for a(his?) wheel chair. Those wheels are much easier on stairs.
I would love to try the Stryker!.
So when we tried to use one of the new short back(backbreaker)chairs in the industrial plant where i work on my day job, what a mess. The wheels stuck in the grating, 10 flights of stars, (no elevators).
I then ordered a refrigerator dolly. A few hr. in the weld shop, and the ERT Team is in love with it. We practice with it all the time.
(i will add a pic if i can find one).
Now as for the OP, and bringing someone up, If at all possible i would look for a(his?) wheel chair. Those wheels are much easier on stairs.
I would love to try the Stryker!.
crash_cart
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firetender and burntbob raise some interesting points.:unsure: It's sad, but true, that people aren't getting any lighter out there and that yes, transporting up or down twenty-nine steps is a fact of life.:wacko: From what I can gather from reading, if in doubt, get more help!. Of course, nothing is mentioned if there is only two of you, though I suppose you can sacrifice travel time for belated help from fire or police personnel depending upon circumstances.
There are powered stair chairs avaliable in the US, but at a price. I just saw an ad for this one:
http://www.paramedsystems.com/index.php?sec=mov
They advertise 500lb lifting capacity up or down (I'm sure at a price). The same company has an attachment for standard cots that helps them go down stairs-- much like the treads on some stair chairs.
http://www.paramedsystems.com/index.php?sec=mov
They advertise 500lb lifting capacity up or down (I'm sure at a price). The same company has an attachment for standard cots that helps them go down stairs-- much like the treads on some stair chairs.
firemedic1977
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We have the new strykers with the treads. It is a god send going down the stairs. But it is not so good going up. My self I would call for F.D. help. I can not see a injury to my crew or the pt. If I could have just asked for help. So far everytime I ask for it I get the help that is needed. As for the power cots and chairs. We have the stryker power cot. It is nice but it sure does have alot of bugs. And you can not get a stryker rep to call you back in time. If I was you I would stop by some of the firehouses. And get to know your fireman. And they are more then ready to help if you call them.
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