the 100% directionless thread

[Peak]

Indefinitely. Better to just die.

On a serious note, would you refuse a COVID call for "safety". You have a mask and a working truck with the extra ventilation fan thing. After the call you go back to base so they can decon the truck.

We had a corona case a couple of months ago when supposedly COVID 19 had only made it to Seattle, that didn't get sub-typed because we were told that there was no way the diease could have already spread here. Several of the staff, myself included, got pretty sick for 2-3 weeks afterwards but we didn't get admitted and all recovered with OTC meds. We have been told that there is no ability to test us with a titer at this point, so we have no idea what we were all actually infected with; that being said we all got diagnosed with viral syndromes and secondary pneumonia.

I highly suspect that was COVID 19, that we have no idea what the community spread really is, and the disease isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

No, I wouldn't refuse a call for safety. That being said I really don't worry that much about dying from COVID or any other contagious disease. I'm statistically more likely to die this year from being hit by a drunk driver than of dying from COVID given my age and general health. I'm even more likely to get diagnosed with a secondary leukemia from all of the chemo I've given over the years than die of COVID, and we have lost young nurses to leukemia before. Wash your hands, wear a mask, and keep living your life.

 

[GMCmedic]

So if China is 6 months out and still seeing outbreaks how long do we lock down for?

Till someone puts a dollar value on life and determines a lockdown is no longer economically feasable.

 

[Peak]

Till someone puts a dollar value on life and determines a lockdown is no longer economically feasable.

Even beyond the financial situation. What is quality of life if everyone is locked in their homes for 6+ months? Is it worth wasting 6 months or a year of your life to delay an infection that at this point the vast majority of the world population is going to get?

And to the financial piece, how do you pay for 6 months (or more) of lock down? Even in a truly communistic society there is still work that needs to be done, and money/labor cannot simply be produced by the government for thinks like growing and distributing food, keeping utilities and other public infrastructure functioning, and so on. A stimulus check from the government is all money that needs to come from somewhere.

 

[DragonClaw]

We had a corona case a couple of months ago when supposedly COVID 19 had only made it to Seattle, that didn't get sub-typed because we were told that there was no way the diease could have already spread here. Several of the staff, myself included, got pretty sick for 2-3 weeks afterwards but we didn't get admitted and all recovered with OTC meds. We have been told that there is no ability to test us with a titer at this point, so we have no idea what we were all actually infected with; that being said we all got diagnosed with viral syndromes and secondary pneumonia.

I highly suspect that was COVID 19, that we have no idea what the community spread really is, and the disease isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

No, I wouldn't refuse a call for safety. That being said I really don't worry that much about dying from COVID or any other contagious disease. I'm statistically more likely to die this year from being hit by a drunk driver than of dying from COVID given my age and general health. I'm even more likely to get diagnosed with a secondary leukemia from all of the chemo I've given over the years than die of COVID, and we have lost young nurses to leukemia before. Wash your hands, wear a mask, and keep living your life.

Oh, I wasn't asking for me.

 

[DragonClaw]

I think y'all know I'm more likely (terms of probably) to go off half cocked towards "danger" rather than away, even if it's not the best option.

Yet another day with no COVID pts. *sigh*

 

[Qulevrius]

Even beyond the financial situation. What is quality of life if everyone is locked in their homes for 6+ months? Is it worth wasting 6 months or a year of your life to delay an infection that at this point the vast majority of the world population is going to get?

And to the financial piece, how do you pay for 6 months (or more) of lock down? Even in a truly communistic society there is still work that needs to be done, and money/labor cannot simply be produced by the government for thinks like growing and distributing food, keeping utilities and other public infrastructure functioning, and so on. A stimulus check from the government is all money that needs to come from somewhere.

There is a [conspiracy] theory going around in regards of the stimulus. Long story short - the money is coming from federal reserve banks; but the curious thing is that these banks are actually privately owned and do not really answer to the government. The theory is that these banks create money out of thin air (cryptocurrency), and since the numbers aren’t backed up by any real world value - once the state of emergency is over, the gov’ment will have to bail out the banks and we’re gonna face yet another Great Depression.

 

[Peak]

There is a [conspiracy] theory going around in regards of the stimulus. Long story short - the money is coming from federal reserve banks; but the curious thing is that these banks are actually privately owned and do not really answer to the government. The theory is that these banks create money out of thin air (cryptocurrency), and since the numbers aren’t backed up by any real world value - once the state of emergency is over, the gov’ment will have to bail out the banks and we’re gonna face yet another Great Depression.

On a non-conspiracy side, even if money is essentially printed from nothing you end up devaluing currency and will worsen a recession/depression. Or it is debt that we pay back in taxes, reduced services, et cetera. There is no free lunch.

 

[Qulevrius]

On a non-conspiracy side, even if money is essentially printed from nothing you end up devaluing currency and will worsen a recession/depression. Or it is debt that we pay back in taxes, reduced services, et cetera. There is no free lunch.

That’s the whole point. The taxes are going to be as high as those in socialist countries and since the inflation ratio will be at all times high, all our savings will be worth nothing.

 

[GMCmedic]

There is a [conspiracy] theory going around in regards of the stimulus. Long story short - the money is coming from federal reserve banks; but the curious thing is that these banks are actually privately owned and do not really answer to the government. The theory is that these banks create money out of thin air (cryptocurrency), and since the numbers aren’t backed up by any real world value - once the state of emergency is over, the gov’ment will have to bail out the banks and we’re gonna face yet another Great Depression.

The federal reserve bought government debt, whether they created that money out of thin air I dont know.

 

[Peak]

That’s the whole point. The taxes are going to be as high as those in socialist countries and since the inflation ratio will be at all times high, all our savings will be worth nothing.

I don't think taxes are going to be as high as socialist countries, although really you have to consider the degree of socialism we are talking about.

In a country like Sweden I'd be paying 60% (as well as many members of this board) just in income taxes. Here in the US I pay about 30% for federal, state, and city income taxes.

In the US roughly 40% of the population are already on government funded insurance (medicare, medicaid, VA, indigent care programs, tricare, et cetera).

Also if you look at things like universal basic income in countries that are or have tried it that it is usually an amount so small that it doesn't or barely allows for meeting truely basic needs, and nothing even close to what we would consider to be our standard of living.

 

[SandpitMedic]

So if China is 6 months out and still seeing outbreaks how long do we lock down for?

This is exactly the question. The answer is we don’t. Doesn’t matter how long you lock it down for- once everyone comes out of their #stayinside stuff guess where they are going (with their $1200).... bars, movies, restaurants, concerts, etc etc etc.... yet COVID will still be there waiting.

The curve is flattened, hospitals are prepared, supplies are being manufactured, and we know who this virus targets the most after 1.5M cases.... Let’s roll already. This virus isn’t going away, yet the longer we keep up these lockdowns the longer the recovery will be for the nation economically.

 

[Chimpie]

The peak was supposed to be two weeks ago, now we are being told it will be in a week or two... or maybe not at all. So much for this pandemic.

Or, because the vast number of people staying home, physical distancing, is leading to a reduction in people getting infected.... maybe?

I highly suspect that was COVID 19, that we have no idea what the community spread really is, and the disease isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

I don't know.... nearly 13,000 deaths in less than four months from a new disease.... "Bad" is relative I guess.

Till someone puts a dollar value on life and determines a lockdown is no longer economically feasable.

We all know that's already happened.

The curve is flattened, hospitals are prepared, supplies are being manufactured,

Flattening, getting caught up, manufacturing... but yeah, it's getting better.

Let me also say this: There are different points of view on COVID19, through the eyes of:
General public - outside looking in as they watch Netflix, tired of being at home
EMS - transporting cases to the hospital (vast majority are self transporting)
Police - non healthcare workers that out among the public all day every day
Hospital - packed EDs, lack of PPE, lack of training and preparation
Public health - not enough staff to investigate all of these cases
etc

 

[Chimpie]

And I'll add this before I climb back up my tree...

Society has a way of measuring how bad something is by the number of deaths. Hurricanes, tornadoes, flu seasons, pandemic outbreaks, etc. They don't see the daily toll it takes on those who are injured, ill, or those on the front lines. We are different because we are on the front lines, but sometimes we become jaded too.

Hang in there. We're all affected by this differently.

 

[Peak]

Or, because the vast number of people staying home, physical distancing, is leading to a reduction in people getting infected.... maybe?

I don't know.... nearly 13,000 deaths in less than four months from a new disease.... "Bad" is relative I guess.

We all know that's already happened.

Flattening, getting caught up, manufacturing... but yeah, it's getting better.

Let me also say this: There are different points of view on COVID19, through the eyes of:
General public - outside looking in as they watch Netflix, tired of being at home
EMS - transporting cases to the hospital (vast majority are self transporting)
Police - non healthcare workers that out among the public all day every day
Hospital - packed EDs, lack of PPE, lack of training and preparation
Public health - not enough staff to investigate all of these cases
etc

And I'll add this before I climb back up my tree...

Society has a way of measuring how bad something is by the number of deaths. Hurricanes, tornadoes, flu seasons, pandemic outbreaks, etc. They don't see the daily toll it takes on those who are injured, ill, or those on the front lines. We are different because we are on the front lines, but sometimes we become jaded too.

Hang in there. We're all affected by this differently.

It's not being jaded, it's having a real perspective.

Do you know how many people across the world die from rotovirus every year? It's about half a million.

Flu kills well over a half million every year.

Add in all of the deaths from malaria, dengue fever, RSV, human metapeumo, para flu, h flu, CMV, rabies, small pox, measles, cholera, e coli, coxsackie, viral hepatitis, and the myriad of other mosquito borne illness and you are well in the millions.

There are two things very unique that complicate social impact of COVID 19.

One is that we have no reliable statistical model. Likely there is somewhere in the realm of at least 2-10 times the number of reported infections. This means that we are far beyond any real possibility of containment, it is now going to be a perenial community human reservoired disease just like flu or RSV. It also likely has a fatality rate that is 5-10% of what is currently published.

Two is that unlike most modern infectious diseases this has been just as deadly to first world countries and there isn't a lot we can do about it. Some patients get better with supportive care, but that's the same essentially every infectious disease. Any of the current experimental treatments like plaquenil and transfusions at this point are just that, and the current data is entirely anecdotal. I have little ability to reasonably project any disease course to my patients.

Also, people seem to be amazed by the things that good ICUs, PICUs, and NICUs have been doing for a long time. Things like lung protective ventilation, proning, and fluid sparing resuscitation are not new. Proactive intubation is not new. Running high pressures on a conventional vent is not new.

 

[Peak]

Also I want to say that currently the sickest patient in our hospital right now is not infected with COVID. In the past month we have had close to a hundred patients pass from various disease, those from covid are very much in the single digits. Of all of our intubated unit patients the COVID group makes up well less than 10% of that.

 

[VFlutter]

 

[GMCmedic]

Are you in Illinois? How many Arch bases are over there?

 

[VFlutter]

Are you in Illinois? How many Arch bases are over there?

Yeah I am in Granite City, IL. We have Sparta, Carbondale, Highland, Litchfield, and Effigham in the ARCH program for Illinois. Other Air Methods in Northern Illinois are Saints, REACT, Airlife, UCAN, and Lifestar.

 

[GMCmedic]

Yeah I am in Granite City, IL. We have Sparta, Carbondale, Highland, Litchfield, and Effigham in the ARCH program for Illinois. Other Air Methods in Northern Illinois are Saints, REACT, Airlife, and Lifestar.

I only knew of Effingham and carbondale, but always assumed there were others. Effingham comes to our base hospital occasionally. Airlife in Olney comes in more often. Back when my base was still air methods (before my time) they did a lot of roll over for ARCH.

 

[CCCSD]

So this morning my deployment breakfast was steel cut cold oatmeal, a banana, and apple juice.
They left out the yogurt.
Savages.