Shishkabob
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Well... depends on their reasoning.
But I'd take that over a firefighter/"EMT" asking why I want a BGL done on an unconscious seizure patient...
the 100% directionless thread
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Well... depends on their reasoning.
But I'd take that over a firefighter/"EMT" asking why I want a BGL done on an unconscious seizure patient...
You seem a little more agitated then usual. Just remember that everyone is trying their best, help them fix their mistakes, so they don't do it again.
Correction: MOST people are trying their best. There are those few who don't give a rat's hind quarters. Unfortunately EMS doesn't have even close to as much room as other professions to tolerate those types of people.
NYMedic828
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It doesnt work that way in medicine. Or atleast it shouldn't.
There is no "I tried my best" when you blatantly give a non-indicated treatment and don't have the knowledge to back it up when you get a sit down for it.
Sorry I tried my hardest isn't a good defense in a courtroom either.
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Standard of Care: Providing the same level of care that another equivalently trained provider would also provide in the same situation. AKA, if 9/10 EMTs think what you did was stupid, it is.
I agree, providing drugs that clearly aren't indicated is simply not good enough. In the ASA case, what if the patient had an undiagnosed (or diagnosed but yet to be discussed) bleeding disorder? That easily would fit the legal recipe for negligence.
EpiEMS
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Shame you can't just strip them of their cert right then and there. Seems like he doesn't really care very much about the most important (EMT) part of his job, because, after all: firefighters don't fight fires very much.
Asclepius911
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NYmedic if you feel that many people are incompetent and not doing their job right, you should get involve in helping to correct this issue such as teaching, or training, or management.
Aidey
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:rofl::rofl::rofl: :rofl::rofl::rofl:
DrankTheKoolaid
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JPINFV
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A few are dumber than a box of rocks, but most aren't
JPINFV
Gadfly
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Standard of care shouldn't matter in EMS. Half the time, if 9/10 EMTs think something is stupid, it's because they don't understand the what/when/why/how of the intervention. Just ask your average EMT if it's possible to clear c-spine in the field and most will say something about not having an x-ray. Apparently they don't understand NEXUS criteria.
Also, giving ASA to a patient who has an undiagnosed bleeding disorder is not negligence, nor is giving it to someone who says that they don't have a bleeding disorder when they do.
Shishkabob
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Really doesn't surprise me, to be honest. People think that just because someone has MD or DO after their name, they MUST be smart. Spend one day talking to many SNF physician med directors and it will prove otherwise.
EpiEMS
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Asclepius911
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If MD are dumb, then it should be easy to go from Emt/p to MD right? Lol, or was it maybe because it was a medical student who is still going to school for it and hasn't had much pt interaction yet... recall the first time you took vitals behind a rig, wasn't that easy? Also some drs who are specialist in a certain field forget of about certain things that they never practise, kinda like those Emt that never practice skills learned in class forget.
med51fl
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The main difference I have noticed in my area over the last several years is that there are an increasing number of people getting into EMS because "it is a job". They really do not have an interest beyond punching in and punching out. They do the basic required things and not an ounce more. They all have these dreams of getting hired by a "fire-rescue department" where they won't have to do so much "EMS sh#t". Then they will be cool firemen.
Shishkabob
Forum Chief
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Oh yes, my bad, it was a medical student acting as an SNF medical director. You caught me. I shall go shame myself now.
There are idiots in every profession, regardless of title.
MrJones
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Always remember that the person who graduated last in their class is still called Doctor. 
First time I took vitals on someone in a rig they died in the middle of it.
"She's got a systolic but I couldn't get a diastolic. Then I re-took it and the systolic disappeared. John, what happened?"
"Uh... she's dead bud."
"Oh."
VFlutter
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Code #2 this weekend. Post op patient went into some goofy looking AIVR after developing a tamponade. Apparently they are opening up his sternotomy right now....
If you gave ASA when it was indicated (ischemic heart pain), and there were complications due to a unknown bleeding disorder, you're right - that's not negligence. (Unless the patient told you about the disorder, but that's another issue.) Its when you decide to give ASA for a situation in which it clearly is not appropriate that the problem exists. If complications arose, whether you could predict them or not, all the requirements for criminal negligence are there. (Duty to act, violation of protocol or standard of care, damage caused, and directly caused by you.)
As for the standard of care, you may think it doesn't apply in EMS, but the court system disagrees. I can't give nitro to my 85 y/o patient with a c/c of n/v who just popped a Viagra and say "oh, you just don't understand." I'd get raked over the coals by my partner, supervisor, medical director, and possibly a judge - in that order.
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