Stroke patient dies...at shift turnover

[ffemt8978]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...t-dies-after-ambulance-driver-clocks-off.html

I'm speechless on this one.

I don't think 4 minutes would have made the difference in the patient's outcome, but to clock out in the middle of a transport? :sad:

 

[reaper]

And they say American EMS is screwed up?

 

[bstone]

It is clearly a violation of human rights to require this driver to work over time.

 

[vquintessence]

Absolutely speechless

 

[Tincanfireman]

Wow...10 char

 

[Epi-do]

That is just completely wrong! I hope there are plenty of repercussions for that individual. That being said, I have to agree that the four minute delay most likely did not affect the outcome for this patient.

 

[WannaBeFlight]

OMG!!!! You have got to be kidding... I am just wondering if the Paramedic in the back knew what he was doing and approved of it, then yes I can see both of them getting suspended. :excl:

 

[Burlyskink]

While I do agree, the 4 minutes probably wouldn't have changed the outcome. The fact that the guy clocked out during a transport amazes me...

 

[lightsandsirens5]

I don't think 4 minutes would have made the difference in the patient's outcome, but to clock out in the middle of a transport? :sad:

The story seems to say that he was a heart pt. Mebby the 4 mins makes the differnce with that.

 

[EMTinNEPA]

I never switched out during a transport, but I have switched in for people. We always made the rendezvous at a spot that was between scene and hospital though, we never made detours.

 

[downunderwunda]

Please, lets be realistic.

They should not have clocked of, but is there more to the story than meets the eye???

It would appear we are making judgments here based on media speculation & we all know that media do not let the facts et in the way of a good story.

There is too much not known to comment ion reallity. Information like was the stroke Ischaemic or Haemhorragic? It does make a difference considering over 90% of Haemhorragic stroke victims die.

Reaper, you said

And they say American EMS is screwed up?

It is. How many different sets of Protocols are there across each state? Compare that to the UK system. They are pretty uniform across the country. They also do not have issues of Fire tryin to run their EMS system because they recognise it is a profession of its own & should not be lumbered with another.

 

[reaper]

That may be true. Does not matter what the man died from. The issue is the driver changing shifts in the middle of an emergent transport.

Oh BTW, I have never seen that in an American system, in 20 years!

 

[downunderwunda]

Chances are the patient would have died reardless. They use a system similar to ours in the UK, determine the priority of the case, but, as i stated

They should not have clocked off

however, i am also wondering what the FULL story is. Remember there are 2 sides to every story & to crucify based on one side of the story is inexcusable. The fact they have been suspended is not relevant, we wouldbe automatically suspended here also pending a full investigation. What is interesting however is that this story did not rate a mention on the English association web page new section.

Lets find the complete picture before we decide who is right & who is wrong. There will be more to this than meets the eye i am sure

 

[CAOX3]

Hemmorhagic vs ischemic is irrelevent because it cant be determined in the field. The fact that it was a time sensitive condition makes it even more deliquent.

If in fact it is true, negligence and abandonment seem apropriate punishments.

 

[NREMTB12]

rather or not the 4 mins would have made a difference, thats not the problem here, ethically this is just wrong, it is not our job to decide whether or not a person will live or die or not, we are to do all that we can do to save their lives, and clocking out in the middle of a shift is in no way fufilling your duty...but that is just me, and about the media, it is what it is...but the core of the message was delivered, nuff said.

 

[downunderwunda]

Hemmorhagic vs ischemic is irrelevent because it cant be determined in the field. The fact that it was a time sensitive condition makes it even more deliquent.

If in fact it is true, negligence and abandonment seem apropriate punishments.

Debateable, that is according to our ProQ&A system, it decides that a CVA is to be responded to within an hour.

Oh sorry, did i use the correct term -CVA, maybe, as professionals we should use the proper terminology

 

[djmedic913]

4 minutes makes a HUGE difference. I know the article was titled Stroke Patient, but the article said possible heart attack.

either way stroke or heart...time is muscle/brain cells...

If they did not divert would the Pt not have coded until they got to the hospital?

Early treatment in either case has shown to prolong death...

we all knew what we were getting ourselves into with this business...I was taught a long time ago, never schedule anything up to 2 hours after my shift.

we get late calls...it happens...I have changed at a scene never delaying Pt care or transport....

 

[djmedic913]

It is clearly a violation of human rights to require this driver to work over time.

I hope this was to be sarcastic...

because if this was not sarcasm, then this was one of the dumbest things I have ever heard uttered in EMS...

we don't work 9-5 and we sure as hell don't always get out on time...

we get late calls...it will always happen...and usually happens more when you want to get out on time...

 

[djmedic913]

OK, 1 more thing about this...

it said they suspended both crew members...

I know as a paramedic I am responsible for everything that goes on with the ambulance, even if I'm in the back. But in the back with a Pt, I can't control what my driver does. The best I can do is yell at them do get me to the hospital. It is not like I can push them out of the driver's seat, coz then I would be abandoning my Pt.

So I'm sure why the attendant was suspended...

 

[Bloom-IUEMT]

however, i am also wondering what the FULL story is. Remember there are 2 sides to every story & to crucify based on one side of the story is inexcusable. The fact they have been suspended is not relevant, we wouldbe automatically suspended here also pending a full investigation. What is interesting however is that this story did not rate a mention on the English association web page new section.

Lets find the complete picture before we decide who is right & who is wrong. There will be more to this than meets the eye i am sure

What could possibly be this man's reason for clocking out during a transport? Maybe if just found out his wife/son/daughter was dying and that moment and he needed to be with them would warrant leaving the pt , but even then its unethical.