Stopping at A Witnessed MVA

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albatross

albatross

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Hello all; brand new to the forum - I joined specifically to ask:

What are your thoughts on stopping at an MVA that you witnessed? I'm not talking about a fender bender where people are clearly not in need of immediate care; I'm talking about your 50+mph car v. guardrail, head-on, with all the, "oh s**t" that comes with it.

Here's why: I witnessed exactly the MVA above - one of those tiny, tricked out jobs, attempt to take an offramp, swerving across 4 lanes of traffic, not cutting speed enough and hitting the rail at at least 50mph.

The first thing I do is call it in to the state police. But I also know that where I am on the highway, I can double back and get to the scene in under 5 minutes without breaking any traffic laws or killing anyone else. I do so, and arrive 30 seconds after one radio car and 10 seconds before a second. I stop in a safe place, throw on a job shirt that I had handy, and here's my conversation with the second officer:

Me: "I'm an EMT and saw the crash."
Him: [condescending thumbs-up]
Me: "Do you want a hand?"
Him: [still condescending] Nope.
Me: "Fair enough."
...and I go back to my car and drive away.

It was the condescending attitude that got me. I understand that as a state cop, he takes crap all day, and I'll buy that as part of it. I also understand that to him, I'm just some random guy who happens to be wearing a patch. On the other hand, if as a cop I've got someone in front of me who saw what happened and might be able to help, even if I wanted him to leave, I might think twice about my attitude. Either way, it got me thinking about the situation harder than I otherwise would have.

Enough of my thoughts: what do you all as EMS folk think of it? Do any of you stop when you see a bad crash happen, or see that you'd be first on scene? Disclaimer: this isn't something I plan on making a habit of or seeking out. Thoughts?
 
fighting the urge..........fighting the urge...............its getting harder.................
 
Flame away, please do. If I'm an unwitting wacker, exorcise me now. :)
 
I think KEV wants you to use the search function. This topic has been brought up 8 times- this month.

The thing is, thats how state cops are. He had to get out of his car (its probably cold out too?), theres going to be paperwork, and he doesn't give a damn about the patients - there is going to be traffic backed up for an hour. He has to run the plate, check for warrants, etc. etc. Plus he's probably thinking it was the kids fault to begin with so he can suffer a little while longer.
 
I don't think I'd put on any article of clothing which would imply that I'm functioning under the auspices of an agency I wasn't currently on duty for. Heck, I very rarely drive home from a shift in uniform.
 
yup. pretty good way to land you and your company in a pot full of hot water.
 
Do you carry PPE like gloves?

Short of manual c-spine and ABCs what sort of care do you think you can provide?
 
Essentially you are one more person for the LEO to look out for on scene and your car, regardless of how safely it is parked, is part of a growing parking lot at scene to attract rubber neckers.

I also wouldn't put on a company shirt if off duty. The officer may have seen you change and that could "make an impression" but not necessarily favorable.

So don't take offense to the LEO's attitude. They have a tough job also. Do what needs to be done and exit if not needed. That is what you may suggest to extras when it is your scene.
 
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VentMedic said:
Essentially you are one more person for the LEO to look out for on scene and your car, regardless of how safely it is parked, is part of a growing parking lot at scene to attract rubber neckers.

I also wouldn't put on a company shirt if off duty. The officer may have seen you change and that could "make an impression" but not necessarily favorable.

So don't take offense to the LEO's attitude. They have a tough job also. Do what needs to be done and exit if not needed. That is what you may suggest to extras when it is your scene.
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http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/05/07/20/the_6_most_common_causes_of_automobile_crashes.htm

Rubbernecking. The leading cause of car wrecks; over and above cell phones, if I'm not mistaken.
 
Very contrary to what I dealt with recently.

My theory is though, if there are already responders on scene (PD, Fire, EMS) I am not stopping. If you witness one and cannot stop safely to provide aid then quit while you are ahead, use your cell phone and just get home safely. No need to turn around and go back.
 
Thanks to all - some stuff I'd considered, but a lot I hadn't. The advice is appreciated, and the warnings will be heeded.

- A
 
KEVD18 said:
fighting the urge..........fighting the urge...............its getting harder.................
Click to expand...

Dont-cha just love being redundant, not only that, being repetitive?
 
My view on this, if its in my town and i can see that its an oh s:censored::censored::censored: i may stop if it looks like assistance will be needed above the regular crew. Outside my squads service area, i would just keep on truckin call PD if not already on scene. My reasoning for me stopping in my town is: A, someone on the PD or FD or my squad knows who I am and what i can do. B, they already have an impression of my squad. And C, if its truly that bad that i would get out of my car, either the tones would drop for a second crew which i would respond to (cut out the middle man) or mutual aid is being called in. Yes i keep gloves with me so i'll maintain an airway and C-Spine to the best of my ability until the cavalry arrives. But since i have no duty to act when off duty i don't even have to do the above.
 
Well I think it is un-ethical not to help, if no first responders are there. I mean who knows how long it will be before help arrives. Someone could bleed out and you being there could actually save a life. Maybe my attitude will change when I start working. I hope not though, I don't want to get to the point where stopping to help people is a PITA.
 
As Kev fought against saying the morals and ethics of stopping vs. not stopping have been beaten to death. My #1 concern is at least here in WI if you witnessed the accident you need to stop and give the police a report of what happened. Personally I would stop, call the cops, and wait in my car until they got there and took my report, then I'd be on my way. The highway is just too dangerous of a place for me to be running around without proper safety measures in place.
 
If I was going to stop at an MVC I'd be very hesitant to identify myself as an EMT. I'm never against stopping to help if its safe and reasonably convenient for me, especially with snow on the ground. (That's the great thing about having a jeep right?) I've never once gone into "EMT mode," or even identified myself as one. I just haven't had that situation, and never ever identify myself as one right off the bat.
 
I am conflicted by this. If I was in a major metropolatin area I probably would call 911. They are likely on scene within 5 minutes. If I was in the middle of nowhere, especially when the previous exit and next ones are 10 miles apart, then I am likely to stop. I have a BLS bag in my car so I can glove up and help with obvious major bleeds.

We have to remember that some states REQUIRE any EMT to stop and help, licensed in that state or not. They'll likely never be able to find you if you don't, but they passed those laws for a reason.

It won't kill ya to get out and check to see if your help is needed. You might just save a life.
 
bstone said:
I am conflicted by this. If I was in a major metropolatin area I probably would call 911. They are likely on scene within 5 minutes. If I was in the middle of nowhere, especially when the previous exit and next ones are 10 miles apart, then I am likely to stop. I have a BLS bag in my car so I can glove up and help with obvious major bleeds.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I don't see quite the issue in the urban or suburban areas. In the rural areas I grew up and sometimes work in, depending on time of day, it may be hours between passing cars depending on how traveled a given road is. Can't say I carry much more than a couple pairs of gloves left over from shifts and a couple of personal first aid items in my car, certainly no BLS kit and no desire for one. Nothing wrong with keeping somebody warm or dry if possible though.
 
bstone said:
It won't kill ya to get out and check to see if your help is needed. You might just save a life.
Click to expand...

and ya might just be sued, which has one of two outcomes. you win, but still end up spending a fortune on legal expenses. or you lose, have you wages garnished until the judgment it paid, quite possibly lose every possesion you have worth anything and still spend a fortune on legal fees.

if im not on duty and not being paid, im not an emt(exceptional circumstances excepted) and therefore im abystander. what are bystanders supposed to do? call it in and stay out of the way. i cant be anymore out of the way than 15 miles down the road, and closer to my destination to boot.
 
Help?

I can't see stopping in say, Atlanta, but when I'm out on a back road in Montana, I'm sure to stop. And I'd expect anyone to in that situation, because you might be the only person to go by in the next 10 minutes, or 30 minutes, or two hours, and so on.

Like anything, it depends on if I'll be a help or a hindrance. With four lanes of traffic flying by me, I might be more worried about getting creamed by some rubberneck myself.

And yes, an often brought up subject that people reply to anyway. :P
 
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