AJ Hidell
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Advanced education and independent practice.
Stethoscopes....
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AJ Hidell
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While there are rare exceptions, generally speaking, yes.
For that matter, neither do most paramedics. It has nothing to do with your patch. It is about your system.
daedalus
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daedalus
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EMTs and EMT-Is do not practice any sort of medicine. Its first aid.
No one in EMS is practising medicine.
AJ Hidell
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I wouldn't go that far. I would however agree that few are doing it legally.
daedalus
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It is a general belief that Paramedics practice out of hospital medicine. They do after all have knowledge in anatomy, physiology, pathophysiology, and pharmacology. They use that knowledge to formulate differential diagnosis and treat the patient with drugs and techniques usually reserved for physicians and advanced personal in the hospital.
So do I.
Except I am not under the impression that eight months or two years of training allows anyone to practise medicine
I have a few friends with upwards of ten years of education and hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans that would probably agree.
daedalus
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The certification you carry does not require A&P and the like, so it is moot point. Until you go to paramedic school, you cannot really comment on the education or abilities they have.
Whooooo I'm impressed entry level A&P classes. Big accomplishment.
Dont assume you know my educational background or what was required.
Quantitative Chemical Analysis, Molecular Biology now thats a challenge.
You want to practice medicine go to med school.
Ridryder911
EMS Guru
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How is that working for you?
My grocery sacker has an advanced degree in mathematics as in meteorology but that would not be a hurt but not help in medicine either. Wise one would hopefully, choose the appropriate courses associated with the profession.
Sorry, when one make a clinical impression (diagnosis) based upon from the knowledge of education. Then upon the hypothesis and clinical assessment; yes you do practice medicine (in some form). No, physicians are not the only ones that can perform that.
R/r 911
medic417
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We practice medicine. We must make a diagnosis and treat. At times that treatment may just be transport but our diagnosis led to that choice of treatment. For those that just want to be ambulance drivers find a new job.
Just wow
I am constantly amazed at the post on this forum. There is often talk of getting more respect for prehospital providers and most the time people come up with education being a cornerstone. Yet, we chop people down because they decide not to go to medic school. Yet we commonly debate the merits of many of the medic schools around. Because we follow a SMO does not mean we are practicing medicine.
I would like to see EMS working together not constantly cutting eachother down.
As for the OP...at my full time gig I use a Master Cardiology. At my vol ambulance we have anything from a Cardiology III, Select. I also like the DRG scopes. And to the poster that asked if you dx murmurs...yes..that weren't document prior. Of course, it was no problem for the pt so you're right I didnt make a difference. Until one has a skilled ear they might need all the help they can get.
Be safe.
I am constantly amazed at the post on this forum. There is often talk of getting more respect for prehospital providers and most the time people come up with education being a cornerstone. Yet, we chop people down because they decide not to go to medic school. Yet we commonly debate the merits of many of the medic schools around. Because we follow a SMO does not mean we are practicing medicine.
I would like to see EMS working together not constantly cutting eachother down.
As for the OP...at my full time gig I use a Master Cardiology. At my vol ambulance we have anything from a Cardiology III, Select. I also like the DRG scopes. And to the poster that asked if you dx murmurs...yes..that weren't document prior. Of course, it was no problem for the pt so you're right I didnt make a difference. Until one has a skilled ear they might need all the help they can get.
Be safe.
daedalus
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All those classes mean nothing when you cannot practice at an advanced level. (Not to devalue education, but simply having taken classes with big names does not make you a better provider, and does not make you understand the roles of a paramedic)
I usually am a strong advocate for advanced education, but taking a handful of upper division science classes does not give you the right to chop down paramedicine (which you are not a part of).
I will repeat myself, the certification you carry does not require A&P and the like, so it is moot point. Until you go to paramedic school, you cannot really comment on the education or abilities they have. I have a year of gross anatomy and human physiology. Far from entry level.
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whatever happened to the saying good BLS makes great ALS....or however you happened to learn it.........EMT-Basics and Intermediates make up the cornerstone of what paramedics do. I agree with EMTJACK that it is amazing how you can be one way on a topic one minute and the other the next. Ask any medic that has been around for a while and I guarentee they will put a lot of credit for their success on the basics around them. Yea maybe they dont have a year of A&P, a lengthy pharmocology background, or even as much pathophysiology....but I do believe they have training. And when you have training you use it to practice in whatever field you are. Whether its as simple as looking at someone and using your judgement to decide whether this person is having trouble breathing and are you going to use a NC or NRB? Im sorry if you guys work in a system that doesnt allow you to do anything but in the system I work we actually rely on our basics and intermediates to practice medicine...i know because i am one.
AJ Hidell
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Most of us outgrew those silly platitudes after only a few years of experience.
Uhhh... no. The silly saying you quote is referring to the simple ABC skills of BLS, not to BLS providers themselves.
Epic FAIL. Ask me. Go ahead, ask me. I've been a medic in the field longer than probably anyone else on this forum, and I give zero credit to any EMT-B for my success. I was successful because I worked and studied hard, and had great guidance from other medical professionals all along the way. There is nothing that any EMT-B has ever done for me that another paramedic could not have done better. And in fact, for most of my career, I have worked in systems where there were no EMT-Bs. Can't say I ever missed them.
You know nothing. You don't even know the meaning of "practicing medicine", yet you presume to discuss it. I don't care how wonderful you think your basics and Intermediates are, they aren't practicing medicine, at least not legally, or with the blessing of their medical director. They're simply providing monkey-see-monkey-do, paint by the numbers first aid. I know it gives you a warm and tingly feeling to pat them and yourself on the back for all your awesomeness, but it's all irrelevant. Maybe someday, once you have a significant education and experiential background, you'll realise how silly your current thinking is. If you're lucky, you'll figure it out quicker than I did. I hope so. I really do.
Meursault
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Gods below, this thread has gone from one topic that's been beaten to death to another that's been beaten to death with bruised egos, speculation about the quality of care delivered by other posters*, tenuous assertions, and questionable logic.
*On SDN, Burnett's Law applies to a similar phenomenon. It's a slightly modified Godwin's Law and has the same effects. I propose that the law also holds here, with the addition that ad hominem attacks on the opponent's department or certification level also invoke it.
I'd name it after the member that helped me realize the inanity of discussions like this, but I've been told that it would get me b&. So it's :censored:'s law unless anyone has any better ideas.
*On SDN, Burnett's Law applies to a similar phenomenon. It's a slightly modified Godwin's Law and has the same effects. I propose that the law also holds here, with the addition that ad hominem attacks on the opponent's department or certification level also invoke it.
I'd name it after the member that helped me realize the inanity of discussions like this, but I've been told that it would get me b&. So it's :censored:'s law unless anyone has any better ideas.
Your looking at education under a microscope, fifty percent of college credits toward a degree have nothing to do with area of study, education is about forming a well rounded individual.
I applaud you grocery bagger, maybe he chooses to do that. I don't sit in judgment of personal decisions.
When one practices medicine they are not confined to a box that was provided to them, EMS providers for the most part treat symptoms not underlying problems. When we do someday practice medicine, if that in fact becomes the direction you wont be confined to the constraints of the truly educated, you will rest solely on your education, experience and clinical judgment to form diagnosis and treatment plans.
I also respect your comments for the most part on this forums, they are insightful, respectful and educational, however I am not an eighteen year old fresh out of mommy's basement. I am an educated person who CHOOSES to function as an EMT not through restraint but by choice. With that decision solely I am a asset to EMS. I don't need, crave or sit in wait for your acceptance or respect.
AJ Hidell
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It doesn't matter if you have a doctorate in rocket surgery, man. That's yesterday. Today you are in EMS, and you are back at square 1. You now have to work your way back up another totem pole. If you don't like that prospect, you should have stayed in whatever field you were doing so wonderful in before.
Do you get respect for your educational achievements? Absolutely. Certainly from me, at least. But you seem to think that makes you more of an EMT than the next guy, and I'm sorry, but it does not. And no amount of flexing and feeling sorry for yourself is going to change that.
Do you get respect for your educational achievements? Absolutely. Certainly from me, at least. But you seem to think that makes you more of an EMT than the next guy, and I'm sorry, but it does not. And no amount of flexing and feeling sorry for yourself is going to change that.