Saudi Red Crescent Authority

Status
Not open for further replies.

DesertMedic

Forum Ride Along
5
0
0
Well I can appreciate what you are saying...(kind of) but you act like all involved went into this blind and you don't know our backgrounds. I have been in the mid-east working for 7 years now and Saudi was the 5th country in the region for me so I had some idea of what I was getting into...(I thought), but what went on behind the scenes there even threw me for a loop. It is by far the worse example of corruption I have seen since working overseas. It just made no sense at all. I understand that if they don't pay there is nothing you can do but at the same time you sign a contract and have to take people at their word because that is all people have. I actually took a pay cut to go there so it was not about the money for me. I was bored of sitting around as an insurance policy just in case someone got hurt. The majority of these threads are to warn people of the corruption that goes on there. And of course just because we got screwed by which ever side (it's hard to tell anymore) doesn't mean we will just forget about the month salary we are owed and right it up as experience. Wether we need the money or not it is a matter of principle and I personally do not like the fact of people sitting over tea laughing about how they put one over on me. I am really curious where you get the information of asians referring to us as cock roaches since my wife is asian and I speak the language fluent enough to know when someone is putting me down. I don't know if you meant to come across in a demeaning way but I have been offended by your post the most!!
 

NJFLGHTMDC

Forum Crew Member
59
0
0
are you admitting to breaking a law in your country then?

It sounds like it to me, but I am not a lawyer.
"Yes, AA hired 22 Medics in a short period. By the way, I applied for your Governement Visit Visa because I was told to do so.
This process didn't take more than a week to get you here, but you know that you have to go for a visa run every now and then. You can't open a bank account, no driving license, no other benefits. It's stated in your visa that you weren't permitted to work and you even can't ask for you salery because you weren't permitted to work. I'm sure you know this already.

The other process will give you all benefits above even though it takes a longer period to get it.

I understand your feeling and that's was why you call our pro paramedics (slaves) I would leave this to one of them who is a member of this website to reply to you."

You brought us over here on a visitor's visa and knowingly allowed us to work in your country. As it stated on my visa not permitted to work. Still your department allowed for 77 people to "WORK for the SRCA SOP group" in a sense Illegally, or did it not matter since we were getting the job done?
you can send me a personal email if you realized you just confessed to breaking the law schemp001@aol.com
 

Veneficus

Forum Chief
7,301
16
0
Well I can appreciate what you are saying...(kind of) but you act like all involved went into this blind and you don't know our backgrounds.

It is not about backgrounds, the duplicity of Saudis is quite well known. I am not speaking of Middle East countries in general but specifically of Saudi. If such massive exploits are known here, it must be commonly known in all countries of the region.


I have been in the mid-east working for 7 years now and Saudi was the 5th country in the region for me so I had some idea of what I was getting into...(I thought),

I understand it is a negative experience. That your previous experiences were better. But as you said, you thought you knew what you were getting into. If it could happen to you with your experience, it certainly can happen to anyone else or a first timer.


but what went on behind the scenes there even threw me for a loop. It is by far the worse example of corruption I have seen since working overseas. It just made no sense at all.

I think it makes perfect sense. In my travels I have found that one of the things most Americans (especially tourists) fail to understand is that in oppresive countries (whether it is in Asia, Europe, Africa, or anywhere) The low guys on the totem pole try to make it up a few steps then they do all they can to fleece for personal gain without exposing themselves to getting caught.

In anycase, being able to blame a foreign worker to make off with some cash or nepotistic deals is the norm. It is also why you are shut out of information loops and nobody answers questions. The more information people have the more likely the corrupt party is to be exposed.


I understand that if they don't pay there is nothing you can do but at the same time you sign a contract and have to take people at their word because that is all people have.

You are superimposing your value of somebody's word on a completely different culture. be careful not to do that. I have been to many countries, and I will point out that even the US State Dept. website states in Saudi that verbal agreements and side letters are not considered binding. Not just in Saudi do local people take advantage of that.

No matter the country, if verbal agreements are nonbinding, the native parties think you are a fool for accepting somebody's word. Basically the impression is you deserve to be ripped off for not being smarter.


The majority of these threads are to warn people of the corruption that goes on there..

I have followed this thread for some time, the last few days was all about crying about being ripped off. I was tired of it so i figured I would just call a spade a spade in a nonpolitically correct way.

And of course just because we got screwed by which ever side (it's hard to tell anymore) doesn't mean we will just forget about the month salary we are owed and right it up as experience. Wether we need the money or not it is a matter of principle and I personally do not like the fact of people sitting over tea laughing about how they put one over on me.

ROTFL.
It doesn't matter what you like, or what you think you are owed. You were screwed. You have no recourse. You put yourself in a position by your own admission you were not expecting or ready for. If it makes you feel better they probably aren't laughing at you because they are too busy setting up the next group.

I have been ripped off before when I didn't know what I was getting into, trust me, let it go. You will never get satisfaction. whether you desperately need the money or not, it is gone. The only people who are stressing over how you feel is you and those close to you. with all there is to worry about, why worry about something past that can't be changed?


I am really curious where you get the information of asians referring to us as cock roaches since my wife is asian and I speak the language fluent enough to know when someone is putting me down.

Which Asian language? I consider a few Pakistanis, a few Indians, a greater number of Turks, and even a handful of Egyptians my good friends. I also have an American friend working in Paris helping women escaping husbands or refugees from Central Asia. (particularly the middle eastern countries) Tomorrow I will ask specifically what the word is and post it here, but it translates to "cockroach" and it is often used when mocking westerners, especially when discussing the selling of nonmuslim women.

I don't know if you meant to come across in a demeaning way but I have been offended by your post the most!!

I meant to be blunt. Like I said, the rest of the world is not an extension of America. You navigate it on local terms and at your own risk. As I pointed out, not being aware or prepared can cost you your life. I can tolerate only so much crying about losing a few dollars. Especially when it is rather minimal compared to what could have been lost.

Every year I see a new batch of Americans show up on their first overseas trip. I have probably seen just about every mistake that could be made. It is my experience that most Americans I encounter outside of the US really are ill prepared and completely out of their league once they leave North America. It is safer and better for them to stay home.
 

calimedic

Forum Probie
16
0
0
Offensive

I think many of Veneficus observations are right on. What I find extremly annoying is your anti-American statements. Not everyone complaining about their treatment while in Saudi are American. I am an American who has worked in Saudi for ten years including for the SRCS more than seven years ago. I have lived and worked all over the Middle East for the last 15 years.

I have worked with expats from every country. I find it offensive you say "Americans should stay home", or what a "good thing it is only 20% of Americans have passports". I have seen idiots over here in the Middle East from every western country. I dont think Americans can be singled out. I tend to judge people by the strengh of their character not their country of birth. To do that, as you have done shows a very closed and small mind, and a lack of character on your part. I wont ask you what country you are from because I dont judge people by their country of birth. I am much more open minded than that.

Patrick Tom Notestine
Author: Paramedic to the Prince
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Veneficus

Forum Chief
7,301
16
0
I think many of Veneficus observations are right on. What I find extremly annoying is your anti-American statements. Not everyone complaining about their treatment while in Saudi are American.

It is not Americans complaining about Saudi that is the point of my statements Americans should stay home.

It has been my experience that a vast majority of Americans who travel overseas who have no exposure to any culture outside of the US seem to be ill prepared for the rigors of foreign travel. (Fortress America does not just isolate people militarily)

Are there american's capable of traveling without being a danger to themselves? Sure there are. Are there people from other nations who are probably better off at home? Of course.

But I am hard pressed to find people from smaller nations who have no/only on tv exposure to other countries/cultures. Because they are not isolated by both an ocean on both sides and an unfounded ethnocentrism, (which boarders on ultranationalism, be honest, how many Americans have you met that think america is the best at everything and can do no wrong?) routinely interact with other cultures, and travel a great deal more outside of their homeland.



I have worked with expats from every country. I find it offensive you say "Americans should stay home", or what a "good thing it is only 20% of Americans have passports". I have seen idiots over here in the Middle East from every western country. I dont think Americans can be singled out.

Would it be more acceptable to say "The average American should stay home?"

Truthfully, I have met expats from many countries who probably should have stayed home. But like I said, in my experience, It is people from the US that create the most difficulties.

I tend to judge people by the strengh of their character not their country of birth. To do that, as you have done shows a very closed and small mind, and a lack of character on your part.

It is not about judging individuals on the strength of character, it is about the study of culture. Which includes grouping people of similar value and behavior together. All groups have outliers, but there must be a group. (in biology it is called taxonomy all ursoids or ungulates are not the same, but they are all classified such.) It is the only way to study culture. (which at its most base level is the identification of social inclusion that share home range resources, most often food, shelter, and reproductive rights) I don't pretend it is nice to hear or politically correct, but what makes my observations accurate (as you say) is applying the same anthropological methods to modern groups as to studying Ancient Egyptians, Aztecs, Romans, Goths, babalonians, or whatever ancient culture is in style at any given time.


I wont ask you what country you are from because I dont judge people by their country of birth. I am much more open minded than that.

My ancestory is diverse but i use the same method to study them all. I have found the discipline of biological anthropology to be intergral to medical practice.

Usually whatever group finds themselves the object of investigation r observation is insulted. People don't like to be stuudied like other primates. They like to think they are special or somehow better.

Is it ok to objectify Saudi culture and not American?
 

akflightmedic

Forum Deputy Chief
3,891
2,564
113
I have to agree with you.

As an American who has worked overseas for many, many years...we are without a doubt the most ill prepared for interactions with other cultures.

There is such a strong sense of entitlement and superiority everywhere we go. One of my favorite past times when sitting in airports or lounging at roadside cafes or restaurants is playing the game of "Spot the American". It is never difficult actually, but fun none the less.

Even our basic body language and tone of voice is so "noticeable" to everyone but ourselves. There is never a sense of accommodation either and by that I mean the old saying of when in Rome do as the Romans do. We expect everything and everyone to be like us and I am surprised at how many of us do not realize how hated or made fun of we actually are when abroad. I find it funny when Americans become offended that someone makes a joke at their expense, especially when it is their first realization that "hey these people don't like me or my country".

I have been embarrassed or ashamed rather on many occasions by the behavior of my fellow country men. It is absolutely ridiculous! I have even gone so far as to say I was Canadian when asked by a waiter when some idiots were carrying on.

I whole heartedly agree that it IS a benefit to the world that so few Americans travel abroad and have no intention of ever doing so. (said in sarcasm because I feel we all should leave our country at least once to gain perspective). We simply can not appreciate what we have or do not have when we stay isolated.
 

MMiz

I put the M in EMTLife
Community Leader
5,519
401
83
From this point on I ask that members who have comments regarding their interactions with the Saudi Red Crescent Authority through Action Aviation post in the Action Aviation and Saudi Red Crescent Authority thread.

As always, if you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation, please don't post.
 

ExpatMedic0

MS, NRP
2,237
269
83
Hello everyone, I just wanted to update everyone that I finally received everything and mailed it all off. My visa paper work arrived in DC today. Should not be much longer now!
Hope to see some of you soon!
 

Yurong

Forum Probie
22
0
0
Hello everyone, I just wanted to update everyone that I finally received everything and mailed it all off. My visa paper work arrived in DC today. Should not be much longer now!
Hope to see some of you soon!

Me Too!!! Well almost. I received my FED-Ex package last week and just have to get my medical knocked out this Wednesday. I should then have everything together to get off to DC. I have to take a final course this July So I wont be able to leave until the middle of August, but I am started to think this thing might actually happen :)
 

HubblyBubbly

Forum Probie
27
0
0
Me Too!!! Well almost. I received my FED-Ex package last week and just have to get my medical knocked out this Wednesday. I should then have everything together to get off to DC. I have to take a final course this July So I wont be able to leave until the middle of August, but I am started to think this thing might actually happen :)

Good luck. Make sure you have at least 3 months worth of bills paid and enough to live on as your salary may be slow in getting to you. Also be mindful of Ramadan and Haj coming up. This will further delay anything official being done as the Saudis pretty much such down...everything!

For an EMS provider this is shocking especially as it is an essential service in most parts of the world.
 

Yurong

Forum Probie
22
0
0
I have a couple of questions. I remember seeing a post answering these somewhere around 40-50 pages ago, but I have spent the last 40 minutes trying to find it and i cant get it on the search... sooo...

I am working on the Visa requirements and wanted to ask about a couple of things, I would really appreciate answers from people who have actually completed the process!

5. Certified and notarized COPY of university degree or college diploma.

Do I just need to make a copy of my diploma, add a notary statement to the bottom and get it notarized?

8. Police report with detailed information about your criminal record

Does this need to be from the FBI or the State police?

11. Verification letter from a professional liscencing body that states your license to practice is in good standing.

Should I contact registry and request a letter?

thanks for the help!
 

2easy4u

Forum Crew Member
46
0
0
Know what your getting into

This thread is about getting information about working in Saudi Arabia and for the SRCA. I cannot stress enough for anyone wanting to go over to read this thread from the first to the last page. To not notice the difference in the posts of those who did it and made it out would be very unwise.
 

alelkins

Forum Crew Member
43
0
6
I have a couple of questions. I remember seeing a post answering these somewhere around 40-50 pages ago, but I have spent the last 40 minutes trying to find it and i cant get it on the search... sooo...

I am working on the Visa requirements and wanted to ask about a couple of things, I would really appreciate answers from people who have actually completed the process!

5. Certified and notarized COPY of university degree or college diploma. Ask your handler at SRCA as the specific requirements seem to change..

Do I just need to make a copy of my diploma, add a notary statement to the bottom and get it notarized?

8. Police report with detailed information about your criminal record

Does this need to be from the FBI or the State police? * No. Local County will do fine.
11. Verification letter from a professional liscencing body that states your license to practice is in good standing.

Should I contact registry and request a letter? No. Letter needs to be from a licensing body. NREMT is not a licensing body.

thanks for the help!

Additional info:

"Housing" is a large, upscale hotel room but there is no kitchen or laundry facility in the room. Meals are provided as follows:

Lame breakfast buffet daily. Lunch and dinner (2-3pm and 8-9pm) are cooked off-site, plated on plastic, then delivered to the hotel and brought via cart to your room. The menu is non-negotiable and is primarily Egyptian fare.

There is no reloaction bonus paid on arrival as some offers have indicated.
 

HubblyBubbly

Forum Probie
27
0
0
Additional info:

"Housing" is a large, upscale hotel room but there is no kitchen or laundry facility in the room. Meals are provided as follows:

Lame breakfast buffet daily. Lunch and dinner (2-3pm and 8-9pm) are cooked off-site, plated on plastic, then delivered to the hotel and brought via cart to your room. The menu is non-negotiable and is primarily Egyptian fare.

There is no reloaction bonus paid on arrival as some offers have indicated.

At least the previous management were making progress and had us in nice western compounds and paid housing allowances.

Seems like the current are repeating history! When we started in 2007 (now mid 2010) we had the same setup. Hotel/apartment accommodation and food from the local lebanese/egyptian take away.

If your offer or contract states a relocation allowance, or any allowance fight for it. As was previously identified there are some in the SRCA that will pocket what you are owed whilst they give you the run around so that you give up in the end.
 

rhousewa

Forum Probie
15
0
0
DR Rashid, SRCA

If your offer or contract states a relocation allowance, or any allowance fight for it. As was previously identified there are some in the SRCA that will pocket what you are owed whilst they give you the run around so that you give up in the end.

I arrived in KSA with a signed Official Job Offer on 3/11/10. In meetings with DR Rashid on 4/6 and again on 4/13, DR Rashid agreed that those of us who had not received our relocation allowance would get the relocation allowance once we signed our contracts. I signed my contract on 4/18 after asking the SRCA representative, Hisham Al Mubaireek twice, "when would I receive my relocation allowance?" I was told tomorrow if I sign the contract today, I signed the contract. The next day I reported to the SRCA office to get my check and was told I was not eligible for the relocation. I showed my Job Offer and was told that the man who signed that doesn't work for SRCA any longer. I said I had emails that told me I would get the relocation with my first pay and I was told that the people who told me this had no authority to say that. I told SRCA that the relocation was offered on their web site and they said they would change the web; I saved the web before they changed it. I asked for a meeting with DR Rashid because he offered and promised the relocation in meetings the previous two weeks... I was told that I didn't make it clear to DR Rashid that I lived in SRCA housing or he would not have offered the relocation. I told DR Rashid that because of the changes in the Job Offer and what he and his staff promised me if I signed my contract that I would like to be released from my contract and leave KSA. That was the night of 4/19 and that was the last time DR Rashid would see me and yes I asked for meeting with DR Rashid after 4/19 and he refused the meetings.
I spent the next week being told by SRCA staff that I should reconsider my resignation, that I could make more than the relocation in overtime. I said I would not stay with SRCA unless SRCA provided me what they promised. On 4/21 I reported to Ahmed Al Maziad's office and discussed the change in the relocation allowance. Ahmed stated that “relocation was never part of housing allowance” and I should get the relocation allowance like the other western paramedics that had been brought to KSA this year by SRCA. Ahmad stated he would meet with DR Rashid that day and call me tonight with an answer about this issue. At 21:41 Ahmed Al Maziad phoned me and said that DR Rashid would not pay the relocation allowance unless I moved off SRCA supplied housing and I should take the weekend to reconsider my resignation. On 4/24, 4/25, 4/26, 4/28, 5/1, 5/2, I was told that my exit visa and final check were being process. On 5/3 I was told that my check and visa were sitting on DR Rashid's desk and DR Rashid will sign everything when he is ready??? On 5/9 I called Hisham Al Mubaireek to ask if I should expect a pay check today because today is payday. Hisham told me that all my completed paperwork and check is still with DR Rashid and there has been no change with its status. I then went to the US Embassy and reported my treatment to the Deputy Consul General, ACS/IV Chief. The next day Deputy Consul General, ACS/IV Chief contacted DR Rashid and DR Rashid told her I was free to go but it was taking time to get my visa and final check completed. DR Rashid told Deputy Consul General, ACS/IV Chief that my visa and check would be ready the next day and could be picked up then, on 5/11. I contacted SRCA on 5/11, no one I spoke with knew anything about DR Rashid's statements to Deputy Consul General, ACS/IV Chief and that DR Rashid was out of the country until 5/15. On 5/15 nothing had been completed. On 5/16 I was asked to report to the SRCA Office I spent 20 minutes helping Hisham Al Mubaireek fill out an exit visa, SRCA had all the information that I gave Hisham Al Mubaireek. The visa form needed multiple signatures from SRCA which were obtained. The next day, 5/17 I had my exit visa, I bought my own plane ticket and was out of KSA less than 24 hours later.
In my opinion, DR Rashid made it clear that he would sign me out when he was ready. The pay that I should have accrued in the 66 days that I was detained in KSA, the same pay that I was told by many SRCA employees including DR Rashid, that I would be given, I have never received and on 6/5 I was finally told by Ahmed Al Maziad that I was not eligible for any pay or relocation allowance.
SRCA broke their contract with me. Then DR Rashid pushed me to see if I would accept the changes that SRCA made. After I refused the changes I got placed on hold until I got the US Embassy involved. And after telling me that I would be paid, SRCA is rid of me and refuses to pay me anything. I have to wonder if the 5 paramedics that have left KSA since their arrival starting 12/26/09 had similar experiences to mine and left for similar reasons?
Can I prove my statements? I have copies of emails, contracts, job offers and witnesses to statements made by DR Rashid and Hisham Al Mubaireek about paying relocation. My proof appears to have been sound enough to satisfy the US Embassy and allow them to get involved. For all that are considering joining SRCA, be aware that the visa you get in the USA will not get you out of KSA. The exit visa you will need to leave KSA can only be processed by SRCA at their leisure. I was told by the US Embassy when I met with them that they had a recent long history with SRCA. It would be worth your time and money to contact them and see if they have had recent complaints about SRCA. Are all the people in KSA as honorable as DR Rashid? Not in my experience, DR Rashid was the only one who treated me with no respect. The others I met in KSA treated me very well unless they were told what to do by DR Rashid. I don't think I can hold someone at fault for doing what their boss tells them to do. If you would like to discuss this PM me, I will pass on what I can. As far as the quote above, if you challenge DR Rashid you will lose and he can make you very uncomfortable in the process. Would I go back? I will never again go to a place that I cannot leave without permission. Good luck in your endeavors but be careful!
 

2easy4u

Forum Crew Member
46
0
0
Thanks for your honesty

I have been directing everyone and every where I network on the net to read all of the posts on these SRCA threads. There is a stark difference in the posts of those who have experienced the SRCA and are no longer in Saudi Arabia. I hope you will do the same so that people know what the real deal is.
Thanks
 

HubblyBubbly

Forum Probie
27
0
0
It is clear the SRCA is making the rules up as they go. The above example is similar to most that have left experienced.

The question all should ask before signing anything, uprooting you family and leaving your current employer;

How many expats have joined the SRCA since October 2007 and how many of those expats are currently employed by the SRCA?

The answer will help you decide and thats without anyone influencing your decision.
 

alelkins

Forum Crew Member
43
0
6
My opinion...

I've been here since April 15th. Had I known then what I know now, I wouldn't have come.
 

rhousewa

Forum Probie
15
0
0
Honesty

I think this last statement says it all… I hope you get home when you want too and you and your family remain safe. Take care… Jeff
 

NWParamedic

Forum Crew Member
75
0
6
SRCA not willing to hire me?

This was my final communication to SRCA HR today:

Dear sir,

This will be my last attempt at communicating with the SRCA regarding my employment.

I have completed the entire preliminary hiring process that includes:

10 previous employer verification letters signed and notarized
3 professional letters of recommendation
a passport
a HS diploma
college transcipts
paramedic diploma
all related paramedic certifications
application
photograhs
medical/health questionaire

This process has been on going since March 01, 2010 and all necessary documentation for a job offer was completed in the month of April. I have been promised a phone call on numerous occassions with that promise unfulfilled. I have not heard back from the HR department, with whom I communicated a lot with during March and April. I have been patient with the hiring process and understand the enormous task it must be to hire qualified employees from other countries.

It has become clear to me that either there is no longer a need for paramedics in the kingdom or there is no need for my particular employment. I would appreciate the respect to have some form of final communication from the SRCA regarding my employment. You must understand that I am not willing to wait any longer for employment and again this will be my final communication.

Respectfully,

Bryan Brouhard
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top