Saudi Red Crescent Authority

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So my plane leaves in three hours. I'll post as soon as I can and let everyone know I made it ok. It's supposed to rain when I get there with possible Thunder Storms. Wow, Rain in the desert, how often does that happen?? I can't wait to get over and meet everyone. Good luck everyone who is still in the process. If you have any questions. Shoot me a PM and I'll see if I can help you. See you soon Shultz.
 
I just spoke with Al, he made it to D.C. safe and sound and was getting ready to board his flight to Riyadh. Will keep everyone posted.

Christy
 
Goodluck Armor and Al! I hope to see you guys both soon, please keep in touch with us the best you can and have a safe journey.
 
... what was it P.T. Barnum said?

After everything that has come to light, I fail to understand why people are still heading over there.
 
alphatrauma said:
After everything that has come to light, I fail to understand why people are still heading over there.
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To date that we are aware of no SRCA employee's have failed to been paid. The only 2 SRCA guys on this thread that have spoken have noting bad to say about the SRCA. I know this thread is monitored and the internet is also in KSA... but thats not stopping the AA guys with an axe to grind who are back in the U.S. and it would not stop the SRCA ground guys either, if they had a reason.....

It was the Action Aviation guys who got screwed according to them. I feel sorry for those guys and I am not sure who was at fault, but if the same thing happened to SRCA ground guys I am sure they would be pouring into this thread with an axe to grind just the same. Because they are not, I am still on board, worst case scenario it does not work out and I come home. I am willing to roll the dice, it sounds like a fun adventure and I look forward to working with Travis, Armor, and Al.
 
schulz said:
...worst case scenario it does not work out and I come home.
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I think the guys who reportedly slipped across the border, out of Saudi Arabia (current whereabouts unknown), probably thought the same thing. That's some scary ****. You have brass ones my friend, the best of luck to you!

2easy4u said:
Two of our guys were directly threatened and they drove out of the country and flew to a still undisclosed location
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To date that we are aware of no SRCA employee's have failed to been paid. The only 2 SRCA guys on this thread that have spoken have noting bad to say about the SRCA. I know this thread is monitored and the internet is also in KSA... but thats not stopping the AA guys with an axe to grind who are back in the U.S. and it would not stop the SRCA ground guys either, if they had a reason.....


Give it time and you will find out the facts my friend. I am an ex ground medic that did get screwed by the new regime in power. Collateral damage after the former Executive Officer got shafted? Most probably

They did it to me...by email. No explanation, no reason, no face to face meeting, no phone call.

I am not in a position to publicly put the facts on the table but a little research will tell you about Arab culture and the blame games they play rather than admitting guilt.

To anyone contemplating employment be aware. To any SRCA employees reading good luck, I enjoyed working with you. There are many good guys but be careful of the few backstabbers that will screw you if you give them half a chance.

And Travis.. two guys did leave last Thursday..I was one!
 
well thank you for your input. I am glad everyone here is getting the facts.
I am sorry to hear some of you had a bad experience with the SRCA. I am also happy to hear about the positive things from people like Travis.
I am not scared and I am going to go over there with a positive attitude and do my best. If I get screwed I promise I will let you guys know, I am sure Armor and Al will do the same. I am not here to defend any one side.
I love what I do and I want to travel, Ive been to war and have lived/experienced far worse conditions I am sure.

I am highly great full for everyone who has been there so far to share there experiences with us, both positive and negative. Thank you all for the heads up and please wish me luck.

HubblyBubbly said:
To date that we are aware of no SRCA employee's have failed to been paid. The only 2 SRCA guys on this thread that have spoken have noting bad to say about the SRCA. I know this thread is monitored and the internet is also in KSA... but thats not stopping the AA guys with an axe to grind who are back in the U.S. and it would not stop the SRCA ground guys either, if they had a reason.....


Give it time and you will find out the facts my friend. I am an ex ground medic that did get screwed by the new regime in power. Collateral damage after the former Executive Officer got shafted? Most probably

They did it to me...by email. No explanation, no reason, no face to face meeting, no phone call.

I am not in a position to publicly put the facts on the table but a little research will tell you about Arab culture and the blame games they play rather than admitting guilt.

To anyone contemplating employment be aware. To any SRCA employees reading good luck, I enjoyed working with you. There are many good guys but be careful of the few backstabbers that will screw you if you give them half a chance.

And Travis.. two guys did leave last Thursday..I was one!
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schulz said:
well thank you for your input. I am glad everyone here is getting the facts.
I am sorry to hear some of you had a bad experience with the SRCA. I am also happy to hear about the positive things from people like Travis.
I am not scared and I am going to go over there with a positive attitude and do my best. If I get screwed I promise I will let you guys know, I am sure Armor and Al will do the same. I am not here to defend any one side.
I love what I do and I want to travel, Ive been to war and have lived/experienced far worse conditions I am sure.

I am highly great full for everyone who has been there so far to share there experiences with us, both positive and negative. Thank you all for the heads up and please wish me luck.
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Schulz its probably best that if you or any of the guys do get screwed or your contract/conditions changed then do not post anything on here until you leave KSA. All the best to you guys for having the courage. I did and paid the price for no apparent reason. A new regime is in place that seem to be highly hostile, lacking ethics and vindictive. Especially if you were recruited prior to them coming into power!!! Saudi politics can be ruthless and swift.
 
goatlab said:
Here's the thing...the Saudi's want something for nothing.
Examples -
1. AA was contracted to operate the aircraft in a safe manner. Because this was a new program and the aircraft would be landing on streets in the middle of town we were asked to provide training for the local police, ambulance crews, and hospital staff. Then the SRCA changes the rules and says they're not paying for any training the aircraft only operational missions.
2. AA looked at the SRCA dispatching. There was nothing for air and what the SRCA did have...well......string and tin cans would have done better. AA brought in a Comm specialist and set up a dispatch center. Again, 4 months into the program and an SRCA regime the SRCA squawked at the extra staff and refused to pay their salary or hotel bills.
3. SRCA was contractually responsible for all the base(s) infrastructure; hangers, fuel, crew quarters, etc. To date the SRCA has only supplied 1 crew quarters. They're wanting to penalize AA for the lack of operations in Jeddah yet SRCA has failed to establish the infrastructure, there is no dispatching capabilities, nothing to support the aircraft.

AA wanted this program to succeed and still does. That is exactly why they funded program for the past three months rather than let it die in January on the promise of payment later.

So the advise is "careful who you trust in SRCA".
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100% agree with what you say goatlab
Lets not slag off Action Aviation too much. They were not perfect but what I can say is this. Action Aviation led the HEMS start up and had 1 airframe and base operating live for nearly 3 months. The HEMS successfully transported a significant number of patients in this short time and did it 100% safely and without significant incident.

The pilots, mechanics dispatchers and medics on the whole were excellent. The MD902 probably not the most perfect airframe for the job but is still an excellent EMS airframe for the urban environment of Riyadh. There was a lot of discussion on the AA side about getting more suitable airframes with longer range and increased payload.

The AA side of the operation was cautious and safety was top priority. An AA team was down in Jeddah and making huge progress towards getting a Jeddah operation up and running ASAP.

The graphics, artwork and public relations activity completed by Action Impact was excellent. They were highly talented people however when the new SRCA regime entered they were tossed out the door overnight. Such a shame after all that great work!

This was essentially the start of a cautious and safe HEMS operation and suddenly with the rug pulled right out from under it. A significant achievement to say the least on behalf of this AA lead project.

If the SRCA decide to get another operator in then they too may face the same difficult challenges. I do hope they get a secure deposit from the SRCA held in a safe trust account in the USA equal to the value of every airframe they import into KSA just in case they also get there airframes impounded!!! Anything can happen in the "Magic Kingdom"
 
celts said:
Anything can happen in the "Magic Kingdom"
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This is the most important piece of information you gave. I stress this time and time again on web boards and to newbies in the sense new to overseas work.

As Americans, the majority of us have a very distorted perception of what it is like to be working abroad. The safe bubble you know as employee and human rights do not exist. Anything can and will happen, including being jailed for some ridiculous charge and despite what you see on TV, no commando team is going to free you, no savvy consulate member is going to get you off the hook.

You do not have freedom of speech or expression. You are a "TCN" third country national and you are beneath them. You will be treated as such on occasion or often and there is not a thing you can do or say about it.

This is where the Ugly American stigma comes from and we deserve it rightly so. I have watched so many ignorant fools bring a US attitude to other countries and get pissed or upset when things do not happen as they would back home.

You can not get comfortable with that mindset. You must always be on guard and prepare to be humble and not allow the slightest bit of ego to creep in to your thought processes. It is their country.

I only say all of this because many think well if things go wrong I can sue, or I can do this, or they can't do that. Yes they can and no you can't. Short and sweet.
 
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akflightmedic said:
This is the most important piece of information you gave. I stress this time and time again on web boards and to newbies in the sense new to overseas work.

As Americans, the majority of us have a very distorted perception of what it is like to be working abroad. The safe bubble you know as employee and human rights do not exist. Anything can and will happen, including being jailed for some ridiculous charge and despite what you see on TV, no commando team is going to free you, no savvy consulate member is going to get you off the hook.

You do not have freedom of speech or expression. You are a "TCN" third country national and you are beneath them. You will be treated as such on occasion or often and there is not a thing you can do or say about it.

This is where the Ugly American stigma comes from and we deserve it rightly so. I have watched so many ignorant fools bring a US attitude to other countries and get pissed or upset when things do not happen as they would back home.

You can not get comfortable with that mindset. You must always be on guard and prepare to be humble and not allow the slightest bit of ego to creep in to your thought processes. It is their country.

I only say all of this because many think well if things go wrong I can sue, or I can do this, or they can't do that. Yes they can and no you can't. Short and sweet.
Click to expand...

100% akflighmedic
 
akflightmedic said:
This is the most important piece of information you gave. I stress this time and time again on web boards and to newbies in the sense new to overseas work.

As Americans, the majority of us have a very distorted perception of what it is like to be working abroad. The safe bubble you know as employee and human rights do not exist. Anything can and will happen, including being jailed for some ridiculous charge and despite what you see on TV, no commando team is going to free you, no savvy consulate member is going to get you off the hook.

You do not have freedom of speech or expression. You are a "TCN" third country national and you are beneath them. You will be treated as such on occasion or often and there is not a thing you can do or say about it.

This is where the Ugly American stigma comes from and we deserve it rightly so. I have watched so many ignorant fools bring a US attitude to other countries and get pissed or upset when things do not happen as they would back home.

You can not get comfortable with that mindset. You must always be on guard and prepare to be humble and not allow the slightest bit of ego to creep in to your thought processes. It is their country.

I only say all of this because many think well if things go wrong I can sue, or I can do this, or they can't do that. Yes they can and no you can't. Short and sweet.
Click to expand...

100% akflightmedic
 
Saudi Red Crescent

I spent eight years in Saudi, including 12 long months with the SRC. I have held back my comments because I was hoping that things have changed and everything would work out for you guys.

When I was there SRCA had a HEMS in Jeddah, I advised them in regards to training and safety. they did not want to take the time and money to fly a safe service. The heli crashed and killed everyone onboard.

I feel Travis is living in a fantasy world where Saudi is a great place, the people are kind and nothing bad can happen.I think three short months in Saudi makes him no authority on Saudi. Travis bad things do happen to good people over there. You must realize you have NO RIGHTS.. Your embassy ,even the US embassy cares more about keeping the oil flowing to the USA then about you. Ask Sandy Mitchell. A friend of mine who spent 2 1/2 years in a Saudi prison and was sentenced to death on false charges. Later he was freed for exchange of 5 saudi gitmo prisoners.

I also have friends that worked for Action. Action set up the HEMS program in Qatar, and were first class all the way. They ran a very safe service. I also know a few medics who are on the ground in Riyadh now. So if you want me to take sides I know who is to blame.

Dont get me wrong I enjoyed my time in Saudi.. You just need to walk in with your eyes open.
 
calimedic said:
I spent eight years in Saudi, including 12 long months with the SRC. I have held back my comments because I was hoping that things have changed and everything would work out for you guys.

When I was there SRCA had a HEMS in Jeddah, I advised them in regards to training and safety. they did not want to take the time and money to fly a safe service. The heli crashed and killed everyone onboard.

I feel Travis is living in a fantasy world where Saudi is a great place, the people are kind and nothing bad can happen.I think three short months in Saudi makes him no authority on Saudi. Travis bad things do happen to good people over there. You must realize you have NO RIGHTS.. Your embassy ,even the US embassy cares more about keeping the oil flowing to the USA then about you. Ask Sandy Mitchell. A friend of mine who spent 2 1/2 years in a Saudi prison and was sentenced to death on false charges. Later he was freed for exchange of 5 saudi gitmo prisoners.

I also have friends that worked for Action. Action set up the HEMS program in Qatar, and were first class all the way. They ran a very safe service. I also know a few medics who are on the ground in Riyadh now. So if you want me to take sides I know who is to blame.

Dont get me wrong I enjoyed my time in Saudi.. You just need to walk in with your eyes open.
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Calimedic,

Thank you for your post. How would you advise those such as myself to "walk in with your eyes open".

Because believe me that I am gathering as much info as I can from where I sit here in Oregon. I have read this blog twice now i think, talked with many on the ground over there right now and read other blogs with people living in Riyadh.

What specifically would you tell us that we should do to best inform ourselves?

It sounds to me like there is only so much you can learn and understand and then you just have to say that you are going to accept the risks.

So if you would give us your specific advise/practical things that should be done prior to accepting a position over there.

Respectfully,
 
NWParamedic said:
Calimedic,

Thank you for your post. How would you advise those such as myself to "walk in with your eyes open".

Because believe me that I am gathering as much info as I can from where I sit here in Oregon. I have read this blog twice now i think, talked with many on the ground over there right now and read other blogs with people living in Riyadh.



So if you would give us your specific advise/practical things that should be done prior to accepting a position over there.

Respectfully,
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Living in Saudi is not bad. There are many good people around.

The problem for most expats doing work or business is adapting to the Saudi way of doing things. The Saudi way is not as upfront and transparent as in many countries. This is where a contract that for us means a legal document means nothing to them. Broken promises, corruption, bribes, failure to follow through, lies etc etc become a way of life.

The SRCA has not been perfect however overnight the change in upper management screwed everything up.

If you work in the field do your job then you should be ok. Do not get involved in the politics and management side of things. Let them play the games.

As I have said beware of the friendly expats that have been there a while and whose heads are so far up the rears of certain Saudis. They will be spat out eventually when the Saudis have new friends to impress and play with.

Many ground Medics in my two plus years there missed salary payments and other entitlements. Just ask the large group of Sth African EMTs who have been treated poorly, denied exit visas even emergency visas so kept in a country they cannot exit against their will.

As for new operator going in to run HEMS good luck.The Saudis want control of the operation and are not happy with expats telling them what to do, even though they have asked for the help. FFS you need a specialist in EMS to run EMS not a bloody obstetrician for example.

My advice have a get out plan and do not be afraid to leave at the drop of a hat when you do get screwed. Just dont tell the saudis and certain expats before you go. You may ask why the secrecy etc? Why its for your own safety as it doesnt take much to have you land in the klink because some Saudi has made a false accusation against you.
 
Red Crescent

Hubbly I think you must of spent some time in Saudi. You are so right. A contract means nothing to a Saudi. Also non payment or late payment is common. It has happened to me. I knew Dr. Al-Byoot (Forgive the spelling) who was running the show for the Red Crescent. He was an American trained ER Doc and a good guy. So I thought things would be different for you guys. They have since fired him, thats when things started to go wrong.

Once you get to Saudi you cannot change jobs. You must leave the country for two years before you can return. I to had some great times in Saudi. But I know what the Saudis are like. They very much want you to think the best of them. But if you get on their wrong side their true nature comes out. I was in Saudi in 9/11 when they cheered as the world trade centers fell.

When I was there I was treated well to my face, when I wanted to leave I was a filthy dog and the Saudi's I thought were my friends turned on me.

The most important thing is your housing. It will make all the difference in you quality of life. They should have your housing set up before you get there. See pictures e-mail people who live there. I was there when they did the compound bombings. It is not smart to advertise where Americans live.
(Travis)

If you think there are no terrorist in Saudi your wrong, caution is very important. It is musch safer now, still they arrested 113 terrorist just recently.

I hate giving advice because this is an important choice your making. I will just tell you what I would do.

Contact Medhunters in Canada. Ask if they have any jobs at the National Guard hospital in Riyadh. The King runs the National guard. they have nice housing, great social life. You see tons of trauma in the ER, and you might get to work on the Kings medical team as well. Check Aramco also.

Next, check out Hamad EMS in Qatar. They run the EMS service for Qatar and they have a HEMS service. They are hiring paramedics now. Qatar is a very safe country and more open (They sell beer)

If you choose to go to Red Crescent. I wish you guys all they luck. Expect lots of frustrations. They are a Saudi run organization and really dont know how to help western expats. They are used to hiring staff from other Arab countries. Hand them a salary and they fend for themselves. You cant treat a western expat that way. Who does not know the language, culture and system.

Good luck guys, I honestly have tried to give my best advice. I dont claim to know everything. Im just an old dog who has spent many years in the Middle East.
 
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WTEngel said:
I only speak for my experiences with the SRCA. I had heard of the education allowance being changed, but I have no children, and the problem does not involve me, therefore I can not speak to the circumstances surrounding it. That would be good advice for others to follow.

NJ you are leveling a lot of accusations and I am certain you do not know the entire story. I can positively say that you do not know the entire story because:

a) you have not been in country,
b) the information you are getting is fragmented, and
c) nobody over here except for a very few high level personnel actually will ever know the full story of what happened, as this situation has been brewing for a very long time, and is more complicated than I ever care to know.

All of the things I am saying in defense of SRCA are based on my experiences, having been in this country for 3 months. I only speak to my experiences, which have been positive. There have been a few other medics relating their positive experiences with SRCA. The only people relating negative experiences are former employees of Action Aviation, looking for someone to blame for their current hardship, which is unfortunate.

As for the SRCA employee who left, I can honestly say that nobody (ground staff, flight staff, SRCA management, and Action Aviation management) was sad to see him go, and the general consensus among everyone was that we are better off without his type around.

I will tell everyone here, that if I had concerns about the current state of things, I would post them. I have been a supporter of SRCA, and I would hate to see people coming here and becoming unhappy or get into a financial bind based on my advice. If I begin to think differently I will tell you guys, until then, I will continue to support the SRCA.
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Hey Travis. I hear your good buddy you mentioned here is winging his way back to Riyadh from DC as this email is written. And I hear he read this post. He might want to talk to you about what you wrote!!!
 
Message received

Travis,
Will see you on saturday back in riyadh. Maybe your right about what you said. But I don't really care and you and I will have talk. Plan on it!! And it's not going to be just the sit down and drink coffee type either!
 
BHale said:
Travis,
Will see you on saturday back in riyadh. Maybe your right about what you said. But I don't really care and you and I will have talk. Plan on it!! And it's not going to be just the sit down and drink coffee type either!
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Hey is this Brian Hale??? :0
 
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