Responders run over patient

[Sasha]

In your personal vehicle can you see what is within 1 foot of the front of your bumper? On taller vehicles there is even a larger blind spot immediately in front of the rig, because the driver can't look straight down.

If they got in the truck with the bay door closed, and the guy was lying right in front of the door, or even up against it and they opened the door from the truck the victim would have probably been in the trucks blind spot.

And knowing they have a significant blind spot in front of their vehicle, they should check that it's clear prior to driving away. Do you merge into a lane without a quick look to make sure you wont be mowing down another car that's sitting in your blind spot, in the ambulance or your personal vehicle?

How about a

Quote:
Wow, that is terrible...hope the drunk homeless guy makes it and kudos to the FF's for taking care of him and continuing to work!

Kudos for what?? Doing their job after they ran over their patient?

 

[Aidey]

All vehicles blind spots, do you check yours every single time you get ready to move you car?

 

[VentMedic]

All vehicles blind spots, do you check yours every single time you get ready to move you car?

Are any of your stations in a city or residential area? Do you not have any safety measures in place?

We have a wide variety of people approaching the stations from the elderly who want a BP done, curious kids, homeless, tourists who want a picture to mothers who leave their babies at some door in hopes someone will find it or not depending on the situation. St. Petersburg is definitely an area like this.

 

[wvditchdoc]

And knowing they have a significant blind spot in front of their vehicle, they should check that it's clear prior to driving away. They were inside their bay with the doors closed! :censored:

Do you merge into a lane without a quick look to make sure you wont be mowing down another car that's sitting in your blind spot, in the ambulance or your personal vehicle?



Kudos for what?? Doing their job after they ran over their patient?

So it's that cut and dry huh? :censored::censored:

Have you ever hit/run over and seriously injured a pedestrian? I did, almost 15 years ago shortly after becoming a Paramedic. The details of how it happened aren't important, but suffice it to say this young lady was seriously injured. She ended up with a Closed Head Injury and I flew her to the Level 1 Trauma Center. We can detach ourselves from the majority of the calls we run because we were not the instigator of said call. Little different when you are the one that injured the person you are working on.

You, and everyone else for that matter, can scoff and make snide remarks and comments all you want. Unless you were witness to the event or until you've "been there, done that", you have no room to judge anyone.

We can debate the "shoulda", "coulda", "woulda" all freaking day, the point is none of us were there and we are basing our statements/opinions on a crappy news article.

 

[VentMedic]

Because this is NOT the first time this has happened it the reason why others have learned and implemented whatever policy and procedure necessary to avoid this.

You don't hear about it happening very often because FDs in cities do know there is a chance somebody might be in their way when those doors open.

 

[Sasha]

So it's that cut and dry huh? :censored::censored:

Have you ever hit/run over and seriously injured a pedestrian? I did, almost 15 years ago shortly after becoming a Paramedic. The details of how it happened aren't important, but suffice it to say this young lady was seriously injured. She ended up with a Closed Head Injury and I flew her to the Level 1 Trauma Center. We can detach ourselves from the majority of the calls we run because we were not the instigator of said call. Little different when you are the one that injured the person you are working on.

You, and everyone else for that matter, can scoff and make snide remarks and comments all you want. Unless you were witness to the event or until you've "been there, done that", you have no room to judge anyone.

We can debate the "shoulda", "coulda", "woulda" all freaking day, the point is none of us were there and we are basing our statements/opinions on a crappy news article.

There was no excuse to run over this patient. None at all. What kind of person does not check to make sure the entire path in front of them is clear, not just the path they can see from the drivers seat? Someone who should NOT be driving an emergency vehicle.

You can make excuses all you want. It was carelessness plain and simple.

I hope the guy sues the heck out of the FD and buys himself a nice house so he's not homeless anymore and people wont be so quick to shrug their shoulders should he ever get hit by an ambulance again. If he survives.

 

[Aidey]

Are any of your stations in a city or residential area? Do you not have any safety measures in place?

We have a wide variety of people approaching the stations from the elderly who want a BP done, curious kids, homeless, tourists who want a picture to mothers who leave their babies at some door in hopes someone will find it or not depending on the situation. St. Petersburg is definitely an area like this.

Vent, I was referring to personal vehicles, not just Ambulances/Fire Trucks. Think about when someone is backing out of a home garage. They probably have a 4-5 foot blind spot on the ground immediately behind the bumper. If the garage door was closed when they got in the car, they would never see anything lying there.

 

[VentMedic]

Vent, I was referring to personal vehicles, not just Ambulances/Fire Trucks. Think about when someone is backing out of a home garage. They probably have a 4-5 foot blind spot on the ground immediately behind the bumper. If the garage door was closed when they got in the car, they would never see anything lying there.

And that was my point that I posted earlier.

However, if this had been a regular citizen that backed out without looking these same FF/EMTs and some here would be demanding that person be jailed and drug/alcohol tested.

 

[281mustang]

They opened the bay door and didn't see him? Very curious.

Nope, St. Pete Fire has very big Rescues, much bigger/taller than your average ambulance. From the driver seat your blind spot is probably around 5'-8'. I haven't actually run any calls at station 5 but I did pretty much all of my ride time at 6 and 3 when in EMT school.

A couple days ago I talked to the medic that transported him to Bayfront, for whatever it's worth his personal opinion was that it was the pt's fault.

 

[PotatoMedic]

Not sure if this was mentioned.

From what I have read on another forum they were dispatched to the fire station that is near them (a block away I don't know) where the pt was reported to be. They were not expecting the pt to be at their station.

Not sure what all is correct or not. Just trying to bring in another side of the story.

 

[Sasha]

Nope, St. Pete Fire has very big Rescues, much bigger/taller than your average ambulance. From the driver seat your blind spot is probably around 5'-8'. I haven't actually run any calls at station 5 but I did pretty much all of my ride time at 6 and 3 when in EMT school.

A couple days ago I talked to the medic that transported him to Bayfront, for whatever it's worth his personal opinion was that it was the pt's fault.

Of course they're not going to accept personal responsiblity.

 

[281mustang]

Of course they're not going to accept personal responsiblity.

The medic I talked to works for the private ambulance service in our county(Sunstar), he wasn't a Fire Medic...

 

[exitandleave]

We have a suburban that we run on rescues, and the front blind spot is probably more than five feet, and a heavy rescue (F450)that is probably about ten feet.

Both are parked less than three feet from the doors. Not that unbelievable that we wouldn't see something or someone lying there, especially if we open the doors after we get into the truck like we do when we run a small crew.

We get dispatched for calls at or around our station frequently, and if we don't immediately see the Pt, we pull the truck out. If we do see the Pt when we respond- first person in goes to the Pt, second pulls the truck out. Can't work from a truck too well when you have to keep going back into the bay to get to it.

It was an accident. I don't think any one is to blame. I have never checked the front of the bay before pulling out. But I've never heard of something like this happening before, either.

I'll put it to that- it was an accident that could have happened to my department, and probably a good majority of departments out there.

Hopefully we learn from this instead of pointing fingers at the firefighters, the dispatcher or the Pt.

 

[VentMedic]

It was an accident. I don't think any one is to blame. I have never checked the front of the bay before pulling out. But I've never heard of something like this happening before, either.

Accidents can be avoided. Also, rarely are things "just accidents" which is why we use MVC rather than MVA for terminology now.

Not too long ago an ambulance backing down an alley ran over a lady. They failed to use a spotter.

There have been other injuries and deaths that have occurred from leaving or backing at the station which is why many FDs do have some type of safety plan in place.

Hopefully we learn from this instead of pointing fingers at the firefighters, the dispatcher or the Pt.

The dispatcher wasn't driving the truck and didn't run over the patient. At the time of the call the patient could have been "near the station" but managed to get to the doors by the time the trucks were ready to move. And no, the person who called it to 911 did their part so they are not to blame either. If I saw a person laying at the front door of a fire station, it would be reasonable to believe there are people there can can provide assistance. I would not have to park my car in a no parking area, risk the safety of my passengers and wait for someone to open the door. Chances are if they didn't see this guy they probably would not see me kneeling beside him either as they were not looking. Again, this could have been anyone from just someone taking a shortcut to a curious child. Some safety issues must be addressed and they should assume some of their own responsibility in this if nothing else other than to keep it from happening again.

Has anyone read the comments made by so called FFs and EMT(P)s at the end of the article? They are just shameful and give blackeyes to any professional FF and/or EMT(P). I can not believe some judge the patient and say "job well done" for almost killing a "bum". Do we have so little respect for human life without judging how others live their life.

 

[exitandleave]

Accidents can be avoided. Also, rarely are things "just accidents" which is why we use MVC rather than MVA for terminology now.

I don't think they did it on purpose, nor do I think they were negligent in not checking the front of the bay before pulling out. They may have been ignorant- not stupid. Before reading this article I could have found myself in the same situation, not because I'm stupid or careless, but because it was never brought to my attention. Just one of those things that happens because it happens.

Not too long ago an ambulance backing down an alley ran over a lady. They failed to use a spotter.

They were backing down an unfamiliar alley. To be honest, I use a spotter because I'm more worried about scratching the truck or hitting an object. The fact that a spotter may notice a person is not my main thought. That's not to say that I don't understand the importance and the dangers of backing a rig up.

There have been other injuries and deaths that have occurred from leaving or backing at the station which is why many FDs do have some type of safety plan in place.

We require a spotter to back our trucks up in our station and on scene whenever feasible. Like I said, we're a small department and I've never heard of someone running over a patient in front of their bay doors.

The dispatcher wasn't driving the truck and didn't run over the patient. At the time of the call the patient could have been "near the station" but managed to get to the doors by the time the trucks were ready to move. And no, the person who called it to 911 did their part so they are not to blame either. If I saw a person laying at the front door of a fire station, it would be reasonable to believe there are people there can can provide assistance.

I'm was not crediting or criticizing the dispatcher, or the caller. From the sounds of it, everyone performed as they should have.

I would not have to park my car in a no parking area, risk the safety of my passengers and wait for someone to open the door. Chances are if they didn't see this guy they probably would not see me kneeling beside him either as they were not looking. Again, this could have been anyone from just someone taking a shortcut to a curious child. Some safety issues must be addressed and they should assume some of their own responsibility in this if nothing else other than to keep it from happening again.

The difference here is that anyone, save an unconscious or other wise incapacitated person should have enough sense to move when the door opens. We have kids that like to use our apron to ride their bikes. When the door opens, they all scatter into the grass. Also- these people are standing, not laying. Adding 3 or 4 feet to a child, and 4 or 5 feet for an adult. It may stand that I'd be more appalled had they run over a standing patient. Just a reasonable assumption that I make when pulling the truck out, however flawed it may be.

Has anyone read the comments made by so called FFs and EMT(P)s at the end of the article? They are just shameful and give blackeyes to any professional FF and/or EMT(P). I can not believe some judge the patient and say "job well done" for almost killing a "bum". Do we have so little respect for human life without judging how others live their life.

It is incredibly disrespectful and disgusting that people are talking like that. Especially if they really are from the department. Absolutely wrong to talk about a person that way.

With all that said- I fully agree that this is an unfortunate accident that we should benefit from. Whether it means opening the door before we get into the truck every time or whatever it takes. One thing my employer does have is surveillance cameras that cover the front and rear bays, as well as the bay personnel doors, and the dispatcher can check it before opening the bay. Our central station is combined with dispatch- our satellite stations have nothing like this. I'm not sure whether these were installed for security, or for something very similar to this. Either way- it works.

Have some empathy for everyone involved.

 

[paramedichopeful]

all I am going to say is that I feel truly sorry for all persons involved in this situation. I refuse to take a side in this because I do not have all the facts and I wasn't there. So therefore, it wouldn't be right for me to point fingers. I try to cool the situation down, not jump in on it myself. Because of that, I will say nothing more as it would just be throwing gas into a barrel of burning trash. Fuel and fire spell inferno and destruction. I understand things can get a little heated on here when opinions and viewpoints collide, but we must be fair in our judgments (if we even make any judgments). I'm sorry if I have angered anybody; it was not my intention. I am simply trying to neutralize the situation some and hopefully avoid an inferno. I would appreciate help in doing the same. Remember, we are civil servants, and it is ok to have opinions. Just don't let it infiltrate.

 

[BLSBoy]

This isn't FDNY, or Philly FD, where your bay doors open right onto the sidewalk.
This station is set back far from the sidewalk with a large front apron.
Unless I am in the City, or another location where I have to walk to my truck, I don't check who/what is in front of my vehicle.
What if he laid down on railroad tracks?
Or the street?

Should he survive, he would make an excellent public service ad for why NOT to drink.

 

[46Young]

When I worked hosp. based 911 in NY, we were stationed on street corners. On two seperate occasions drunks have fell off of my back bumper (sleeping there, apparently) after we drove down the block while responding. Our CSL was at National/Roosevelt Ave in Corona Queens, IFO the 7 train 103 st station, and near a bunch of bars, restaurants, etc. It's apparently popular for this particular ethnicity of intox to fall asleep in gutters, against buildings, on the corner, or in the middle of the street on the double yellow! I've thankfully avoided hitting those in the gutter.

It would have been all to easy for one of these drunks to choose the space in front of my ambulance to sleep. When we awaken for a job, we check the screen, then pull off, as does practically everyone else in the city. I've treated several "man under" pts after being extricated from under the train. Other drunk pts have leaned too far over looking for the train.........BAM! We're picking up body parts down the block (elevated platform).

I once found a drunk sleeping on my cot as I was going to the back for gear after pulling up onscene. I've caught others on numerous occasions trying to get inside the back. Drunks know that an ambulance will take them to the hospital, and may list about in the general vicinity of one, hoping to get picked up.

In the ghetto, I've avoided teens jumping out in front of the bus, daring us to hit them, so they could sue. In that same ghetto, I've witnessed numerous people walking in the middle of the street, not looking, no regard for oncoming traffic.

My point? Darwinism! If you get killed for actions brought on by your own stupidity, then it's your own fault. In this case we won't really know who's at fault as we're all trying to Monday morning quaterback this thing. If the guy was several blocks away when the call when out, he basically made the choice to lay down in front of the bay. That's what I can infer from the article. No knocking on the door, no ringing the doorbell, but deliberately laying in front of the door. Who does that? No one acting in their right mind would. He may have been intox, but he still did what he did.

 

[Sasha]

nor do I think they were negligent in not checking the front of the bay before pulling out.

I disagree. They were operating an ambulance without showing due regard. That is negligent.

 

[HotelCo]

Sasha: Your avatar fits in this thread perfectly. Just thought I'd point that out.