REMSA fixed wing crash

Aprz

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Akulahawk

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I found a YT video that shows the ADSB data. It has the appearance of spatial disorientation. The flight was at night, in IMC. I took Private Pilot Ground School quite a few years ago and got a light/mild introduction to spatial disorientation... The real thing is much more powerful than what I experienced. In short, your "ears" tell you that you're going one way and your flight instruments are showing something else and it's very difficult to ignore your senses and trust the instruments as you're instructed to do.

If I had to guess, the airplane was probably on autopilot and then at some point, the pilot began to experience the spatial disorientation, didn't believe the instruments, and began hand-flying instead according to "feel" instead of via what the instruments are showing. Just my guess, and and it's probably the guess of a few aviation buffs too.
 

ffemt8978

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I found a YT video that shows the ADSB data. It has the appearance of spatial disorientation. The flight was at night, in IMC. I took Private Pilot Ground School quite a few years ago and got a light/mild introduction to spatial disorientation... The real thing is much more powerful than what I experienced. In short, your "ears" tell you that you're going one way and your flight instruments are showing something else and it's very difficult to ignore your senses and trust the instruments as you're instructed to do.

If I had to guess, the airplane was probably on autopilot and then at some point, the pilot began to experience the spatial disorientation, didn't believe the instruments, and began hand-flying instead according to "feel" instead of via what the instruments are showing. Just my guess, and and it's probably the guess of a few aviation buffs too.
I'm not a pilot, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but when I see this theory I wonder if a pilot's mistrust in his instruments ties back to the 737Max problems. Instruments and systems fail, as do humans. How can we improve that failure rate?
 

CCCSD

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I'm not a pilot, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but when I see this theory I wonder if a pilot's mistrust in his instruments ties back to the 737Max problems. Instruments and systems fail, as do humans. How can we improve that failure rate?
It has to do with the human response to what it perceives. Not anything related to Super Max.
 

ffemt8978

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It has to do with the human response to what it perceives. Not anything related to Super Max.
I get that it's the human response, but knowing pilots are trained to trust the instruments, I was just wondering if they're doubting them and why.
 

ffemt8978

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The NTSB is now saying the plane broke apart before impact, and a witness had this to say
Robin Hays, a Stagecoach resident and a former flight nurse, said she heard the sputtering plane fly over her house before crashing behind her property.

A sputtering engine and a plane that breaks up before impact would seem to indicate it may be something other than pilot error.
 

CCCSD

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I get that it's the human response, but knowing pilots are trained to trust the instruments, I was just wondering if they're doubting them and why.
Because of Human Factors.

It’s pointless to speculate on what happened right now. However, Pilot Error will be a factor.
 

ffemt8978

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Because of Human Factors.

It’s pointless to speculate on what happened right now. However, Pilot Error will be a factor.
It does seem to be the go to cause.
 

DesertMedic66

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With any sort of aviation crashes, there is really no point in speculating as there can be many causes both human and nonhuman related. Jumping to conclusions doesn’t help anything and can only hurt if everyone starts saying it was pilot error and it later turns out the pilot did everything 100% correctly and safely.
 

CCCSD

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Pilot error is always a factor and is part of most conclusions. Eg: flying into WX.
 

Akulahawk

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PC-12 aircraft are turboprops. I doubt the engine would be sputtering. The ADSB data shows a normal SID out of the airport then a climbing turn to the right that was off plan followed by a tightening left spiral down out of radar contact. It is not out of the realm of possibilities that the aircraft was overstressed and broke apart during descent during that downward left spiral. I would be very, very surprised if spatial disorientation didn't play a role in this crash.
 
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