Recommendations for Law enforcement medical training

[NysEms2117]

Has any discussion ever occurred about (for short distances) transporting a patient toute de suite in the back of a police vehicle?

A good study came out in 2011 about this: The study, "Injury-adjusted Mortality of Patients Transported by Police Following Penetrating Trauma", had some interesting findings. And here's another forthcoming study (published ahead of printing), entitled "Police transport vs. ground EMS: A trauma system-level evaluation of prehospital care policies and their effect on clinical outcomes", which found that "Using trauma system level analyses, patients with penetrating injuries in urban trauma systems were found to have similar mortality for police and EMS transport."

A variant of this type of transport is being set into place, for mci's(mass shootings mainly). "All" cops show up. And break off as they are clearing the facility in question, and usually go in with 2-3 extra guys on the tail to drag people out. Generally by the time they get to that point ems is staging, but protocols are being set, I'll see if I can find the official ones for the state and put them up


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[EpiEMS]

I thought they were still doing this in Philly?

I think they are -- it certainly is evidence based!

A variant of this type of transport is being set into place, for mci's(mass shootings mainly). "All" cops show up. And break off as they are clearing the facility in question, and usually go in with 2-3 extra guys on the tail to drag people out. Generally by the time they get to that point ems is staging, but protocols are being set, I'll see if I can find the official ones for the state and put them up


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Cool, thanks!

 

[VentMonkey]

I think they are -- it certainly is evidence based!

https://medicine.temple.edu/departm...rch-programs/philadelphia-immediate-transport

 

[NysEms2117]

https://medicine.temple.edu/departm...rch-programs/philadelphia-immediate-transport

I legit just sent that Via message to him lol. going to get my boss to get the protocols for police transport, or the draft thats being made.

 

[EpiEMS]

https://medicine.temple.edu/departm...rch-programs/philadelphia-immediate-transport

I legit just sent that Via message to him lol. going to get my boss to get the protocols for police transport, or the draft thats being made.

Oh man -- this is so cool! I love when they study things like this. The results will be fascinating (especially if they end up comparing police/BLS/ALS)!

The opt-out option is pretty...surprising. I wonder what their take-up rate is.

 

[DrParasite]

IIRC, Philly PD has a van staffed with two officers. pick up the GSW victim, throw him in the back, and take him to a trauma center, and leave them in the ER. usually they will even call the ER to have them have a bed waiting for them at the entrance.

Back to the original question, it depends on the nature of the call.

for an MCI, I want LEO doing crowd control, and and investigatory / scene safety stuff, and give me an update on what you have
for a penetrating trauma, #1 find and secure the bad guy, #2, apply pressure to slow down the bleeding, and give me an update on what you have
For a cadiac arrest, CPR, hook up the defib, shock him, and give me an update on what you have
for a "routine" medical or trauma, get the patient's name, DOB, list of medications, phone number, and give me an update on what you have

Basic rules for any first responder: 1) prevent the situation from getting worse 2) initiate life saving measures that are time critical, 3) update the responding units on what you have, because what you get dispatched to and what is actually going on can be on opposite ends of the spectrum

 

[NysEms2117]

Okay, I can Definatly bring up fundamental medical care along with some crowd control. @DrParasite, would you like to see a set distance for a perimeter, or anything along those lines. Do you think a mandate of an emergency responder class EMR(or whatever the naemt says their title is)? For a situation of let's say a 15 minute transport to an ER would it be beneficial to do the philly style and load them in a patrol car and intercept an ambulance? Or should it be one way(stay) or go(full distance). Of course this would be after there are other officers securing and investigating possibly even starting the search/ perimeter.

 

[EpiEMS]

Do you think a mandate of an emergency responder class EMR(or whatever the naemt says their title is)? For a situation of let's say a 15 minute transport to an ER would it be beneficial to do the philly style and load them in a patrol car and intercept an ambulance? Or should it be one way(stay) or go(full distance). Of course this would be after there are other officers securing and investigating possibly even starting the search/ perimeter.

For a very specific set of patients, you can just provide field hemorrhage control and go.

For the rest, you don't need EMR as a minimum (or, equivalently, NYS CFR-D as they still seem to call it), but it would be very nice!

 

[NysEms2117]

For the record I'm saying I as a non emt Leo. Just trying to gather some opinions thank you all for your thoughts and I'll try to get some of this going in the le community

 

[dbest9]

I'm a paramedic and LEO, 2 separate jobs. When I'm working LE I tend to be a bit more involved than most other LEOs in the area so I'm not sure I would count towards or could speak for the typical LE crowd. A large portion of LE in my area want to do as little as possible patient care because they "didn't go to school to be an EMT". smh... I think that any responder on scene can do basic things that don't require licensure like others have mentioned before but a lot of the time when I'm working on the truck I roll up to a 911 at a residence and LE is standing around BS-ing.


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[nholmesy]

#1. Make the scene safe for me. This includes checking the pt for weapons before I get on scene.

#2. Have the PT's name first and last as well as DOB written down for me.

#3 good manual opening of the pt's airway.

#4 if it's night time or dark out and I'm working on the PT and the scene is safe. Then please take your flash light and provide light for me.

#5 on a medical call I expect you to have your own ppe. I'm not carrying extra gloves for you you should have them. It's irritating when you won't help move a pt covers in vomit or other fluids because you don't have gloves

That's about it for now. I feel better now that I got to vent about that a little.