Recommendations for Law enforcement medical training

[NysEms2117]

Hey everybody, I have a meeting in a few weeks with some "higher ups" for NYS LE. I'm an EMT in NYS, but i would like to hear from some of the higher skilled folks, on what they would need Law enforcement to do in a medical situation. This can range from MCI's to a 911 call for xyz. I can go with any REASONABLE suggestions. It can be anything from laying a patient in a certain way to, intercepting ect.

 

[VentMonkey]

Hey everybody, I have a meeting in a few weeks with some "higher ups" for NYS LE. I'm an EMT in NYS, but i would like to hear from some of the higher skilled folks, on what they would need Law enforcement to do in a medical situation. This can range from MCI's to a 911 call for xyz. I can go with any REASONABLE suggestions. It can be anything from laying a patient in a certain way to, intercepting ect.

How about this?...
http://www.naemt.org/education/LEFR-TCC/LEFRTCC.aspx

 

[NomadicMedic]

I like it when a cop carries my bag.

 

[VentMonkey]

I like it when a cop carries my bags...one in each arm.

.

 

[NysEms2117]

How about this?...

NYS is currently working on bringing that to a state level, was aiming more for "non-regulated" things you folks would need/like (if you can catch where im going?) I'm struggling with wording here lol.

 

[VentMonkey]

NYS is currently working on bringing that to a state level, was aiming more for "non-regulated" things you folks would need/like (if you can catch where im going?) I'm struggling with wording here lol.

Sorry @NysEms2117, it's all I got right now.

 

[NysEms2117]

Sorry @NysEms2117, it's all I got right now.

all good my friend , anything you don't want LE to do? lol

 

[VentMonkey]

all good my friend , anything you don't want LE to do? lol

Not carry our bags and monitors???...

 

[EpiEMS]

In my mind, there are six things anybody who drives around with lights and sirens should be able to do:
1) Perform good chest compressions
2) Provide basic airway management (head-tilt/chin-lift and jaw thrust maneuvers), not including oxygen administration
3) Properly apply and use an AED
4) Perform effective hemorrhage control (i.e. as per the NYS skill sheet, excluding "shock management"), including but not limited to the use of a tourniquet and hemostatic dressing.
5) "Assist" with an EpiPen
6) Self-administer an auto-injector (e.g. DuoDote)

Items 1 through 3 can be covered in your CPR/AED for the Professional Rescuer (or equivalent) class. Items 4-6 are easily covered through an in-service training.

Naloxone is not as useful as good airway management.

 

[NysEms2117]

4) Perform effective hemorrhage control (i.e. as per the NYS skill sheet, excluding "shock management"), including but not limited to the use of a tourniquet and hemostatic dressing.
6) Self-administer an auto-injector (e.g. DuoDote)

I can bring up DuoDote in NYS those are NOT carried in the STANDARD bags of LE, however it is part 800 for ambulances.
I can also bring up hemorrhage control

EDIT TO THE MAIN POST: Also feel free to say things LE does in your area that you DO NOT want them to do.

 

[VentMonkey]

Ok, so in all seriousness, all the above that @EpiEMS mentioned goes without saying, and is excellent, but thee biggest thing I would love from LEO at least on my side of the coast is consistent and effective crowd control.

Once EMS arrives the most important roles that LEO, IMO could do, is that of securing the scene properly so as to see fit no do-gooders, lookie loo's, or anyone that is going to disrupt and already chaotic environment like an MCI, are kept at bay.

This helps turn something potentially chaotic into a well-oiled machine of a call/ scene/ incident. I am willing to bet that many of these larger scale MCI's that go as smooth as one can hope are in part (albeit, sadly under credited), due to a strong police presence in keeping people who may mean well from disrupting this type of environment.

That's the one thing I can say first hand I see the LE departments where I am struggle with from time to time.

 

[NysEms2117]

Summarized in: more awareness of crowd control at a mci? Possible expansion of the perimeter to keep "spectators " further away?


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[VentMonkey]

Summarized in: more awareness of crowd control at a mci? Possible expansion of the perimeter to keep "spectators " further away?


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Perhaps not just MCI's, but any high profile case that has the potential for further scene disruption (stabbings, shootings, MVC's etc.).

I understand that they have jobs to do that I may be unaware of, or may not appreciate, but if they could offer some of the many hands on deck that usually come with these types of calls a stronger emphasis on scene control from a LE perspective, it will not only help us, but also them preserve such a scene.

 

[NysEms2117]

Can do, will bring that up and let you know what they come back with. For stabbings and gsw's we are getting the wheel rolling on finding the bad guy all that, but can Definitely be a topic that gets brought up.


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[ERDoc]

In a public/high profile/MCI situation, I want the cops doing police stuff. On your normal 911 house call, they can do more. In Suffolk, all PD become EMTs in the academy. They are also on most scenes 5-10 min before EMS.

 

[Qulevrius]

Medical situation, aside from what you already know from your EMT training ? CLS and T-triple-C. Everything else is far beyond your scope.

 

[NysEms2117]

Medical situation, aside from what you already know from your EMT training ? CLS and T-triple-C. Everything else is far beyond your scope.

I am excluded from this situation, due to the fact I have gotten my emt cert. Was mainly talking for the general population of NYS officers - Suffolk.


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[NomadicMedic]

I think the stuff that was mentioned before is the important stuff for police officers to know.

Airway management, including BLS maneuvers and a bag valve mask.

Good effective CPR and AED placement/use. (every police car here has an AED in the trunk, don't know if that's the case where you are.)

The ability to apply major hemorrhage control, a CAT/quickclot and an Israeli bandage.

Those are the things that kill people, and being good and fast at those things will help keep patients viable until EMS arrives.

(And then the cops can help me carry my bags…)

 

[EpiEMS]

Has any discussion ever occurred about (for short distances) transporting a patient toute de suite in the back of a police vehicle?

A good study came out in 2011 about this: The study, "Injury-adjusted Mortality of Patients Transported by Police Following Penetrating Trauma", had some interesting findings. And here's another forthcoming study (published ahead of printing), entitled "Police transport vs. ground EMS: A trauma system-level evaluation of prehospital care policies and their effect on clinical outcomes", which found that "Using trauma system level analyses, patients with penetrating injuries in urban trauma systems were found to have similar mortality for police and EMS transport."

 

[VentMonkey]

Has any discussion ever occurred about (for short distances) transporting a patient toute de suite in the back of a police vehicle?

A good study came out in 2011 about this: The study, "Injury-adjusted Mortality of Patients Transported by Police Following Penetrating Trauma", had some interesting findings. And here's another forthcoming study (published ahead of printing), entitled "Police transport vs. ground EMS: A trauma system-level evaluation of prehospital care policies and their effect on clinical outcomes", which found that "Using trauma system level analyses, patients with penetrating injuries in urban trauma systems were found to have similar mortality for police and EMS transport."

I thought they were still doing this in Philly?