(RANT) Idiot drivers

Linuss said:
. Yes, I "could" have gone slower, but for the umpteenth time, that's not what happened. Quit with the "what ifs" because they are pointless and old now.
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Exactly. Look at your own contribution to this MVC, learn from it and don't repeat the same mistake.

Driving a car and an ambulance requires the maturity and the ability to take responsibility for one's own actions. If one fails to see where they could have avoided their mistakes or any situation with undesirable consequences, one will continue to make the same mistakes over and over. It could be much more serious than a bumper tap next time.
 
We're both saying pretty much the same thing, but arguing the semantics and what lead to it.


>_>

<_<
 
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Linuss said:
The issue has always been someone who didn't want to wait 3 more seconds to make a safe lane change, and who admitted so, but I get a ticket. Yes, I "could" have gone slower, but for the umpteenth time, that's not what happened. Quit with the "what ifs" because they are pointless and old now.
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As is your pointless endeavor believing you will actually be vindicated. Man, get over it already, it is what it is and you won't change the law. All you'll do is piss money down the drain trying.

You have received excellent life advice and driving tips for two of the most intelligent and respected people I know, yet you fail to listen to logic or reasoning. As previously mentioned, that trait probably carries over into your professional life also. That is extremely concerning as it clouds your good judgement.

Take a breath, step back and evaluate the whole scenario. Hopefully you'll open your eyes to how ridiculous you are currently acting. Let it go........................
 
Booger it. Move on.

I saw the title of your post and expected to read about people who race or tailgate emergency vehicles with their POV's, or, worse, other emergency vehicles.

Sheesh, just make a mental note not to stop if that particular car is sitting upside down in the ditch someday. Works for me!
 
I will try to keep this as short as possible because the whole incident gets quite lengthly I think some of the same principles apply to this incident, it is a real life story that happend to me and my wife 4 years ago. We were travling on a 65 mph hiway at 3 A.M. on a Friday night and no, no etoh was involved. My wife was driving ( she was going 62 mph ) and I was a passenger in the front seat. 3 horses came out of the ditch in front of her and we hit and all 3 which ripped them to pieces. No there is no open range law in our part of the state. Seem's pretty clear cut so far right? Livestock out of corral on a public well traveled highway. I do believe there was no way my wife could have seen these in the dark nor did I as I was awake also. Medical bills $60,000 +, loss of a new car which our car insurance took care of and also $5,000 medical expenses per person, and then comes the insurance company battles dragging on for month's each pointing fingers at each other ( our own health ins. and the owner's liability insurance ) about who is responsible for the medical bills and last but not least the horse owner attempting to sue us for the loss of his 3 horse's ( yes you read that right ) which lead us to having to hire an attourney and spend money for our defense as well sorting out the insurance issue's. Went through the depostions and proceedings. Never been in a court room until then and never want to be again. Some of questions that stand out in my mind that were presented to my wife as she was the driver were :

1. How could you have avoided the collision ?
2. Was the radio playing at the time of the collision? ( distraction )
3. Why she did not anticipate that there could be livestock out on the roadway after
living and driving daily in a rural area ?

These were some pretty tough questions to answer, at least I thought so. The findings by the court system were as follows: Although she was not guilty of breaking any laws, living and driving daily in a rural area the collision could have been avoided by anticipating that living and commuting in a rural area that livestock can occasionally be accidently out on a roadway, and also not having her vehicle under control. The insurance company issue's were resolved also.
She has a perfect driving record. She was not guilty of anything but did contribute to the accident. Quite interesting how the court system works, although I don't want to be a part of it again.

Just my 2 cents worth.
 
Where I am, if somebody admits fault they are held liable. Which is definitely something we have to watch out for; If we say "I'm so sorry!", it implies that you are at fault if you're "sorry". It can be used against you in court (does "anything you say or do can be held against you in the court of law" ring any bells?).
 
Even better is an article I saw on another site about a woman in California being charged with vehicular manslaughter because she rear ended another car. She tried claiming they stopped fast and it was not her fault...

They pulled her cell phone records and determined she was texting at the time of the crash. She had also sent 3 texts just prior to the one when she crashed.

Not pointing fingers here but would like to know how much external stimuli other than driving (which is enough isn't it?) was going on during this incident.

Of course, no one from the younger generation will ever admit that it is a distraction, they can handle it all just fine.
 
Yup radio was on. Nope no cell phone, gps, or channel changing.

Funny thing is, he had a gps unit in a position in his car that obstructed his front facing view. Should have taken pics of it.

Spoke to several lawyers today and the consensus is plead not guilty, I'll get a court date in 1 year, and chances are the cop won't be able to prove that I was the main cause of the accident and not the other driver.





PS-- the fine for the citation, because it "caused" an accident, is $300.
 
I have never known a lawyer to say "Yeh go ahead and plead guilty"...LOL.

They may advise to accept a plea bargain but as for straight up and plead guilty...not typical. So your findings are not all that amazing.

Is that area so backlogged that traffic cases are a year on the docket??? That is insane if it is...and you may be surprised to find yourself in front of a judge a lot sooner than one year.

As far as his front facing view being obstructed, what does that have to do with you rear ending him? He would of looked in his rear view mirror or turned and looked...nothing to do with front facing.

As for your plea, I never said plead guilty. I simply gave you some tried and true tactics for how to speak like an adult in front of a judge and illicit the response you want...the favorable one, which removes this incident from your record. I am pretty good at the art of persuasion and I armed you with some highly logical tools free of charge.

Cops write excellent reports and keep fantastic notes. One year, two year, three years from now, he will stand by his original statement.
 
Let me phrase this differently.

Do I have some culpability? Sure. But should I have to pay $300+ in fines and court cost, raise insurance, and gain points when someone else is, in a logical view, more at fault and they don't get penalized?
 
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I would gladly pay a fine and court costs to not have an At Fault crash on my record.

Let me rephrase and summarize:

Scenario 1:

Enter Court. Dress nice. No attitude, respectful of judge.

Linuss: Your Honor, I realize I could have negated this incident by possibly slowing down and preparing for someone else's error. This is what EVOC taught me (here are my course completions Sir) and I will continue to implement these practices in my daily driving to avoid this in the future. For some reason, we expect these behaviors when driving lights and sirens but not in our everyday POV. I know now better and will be more cautious.

Judge: You are right, this could have been avoided but at least you have learned a valuable lesson.

Linuss: Yes Sir, Your Honor, I ask in consideration of my student status that this not be an at fault crash as it will prevent me from getting a job. It will also raise my insurance rates which are high enough already as a young male driver, no matter how cautious I try to be.
I also would like to ask you to consider a reduced fine (dont say no fine, let him do that).

Judge: I am sure we can arrange something due to your willingness to learn from this incident and your realization that it was not entirely one sided.

Then the judge reduces or throws out the fine and changes the ticket to something ery minor or possibly removes it completely.

***Also, you are allowed to talk to the officer. It would be wise to possibly approach him and explain your personal situation and see if he can assist you. Officers are our friends, unless you were an *** on scene.


Notice in the above scenario how there was NO mention of the other party. There was no petty finger pointing or shifting of blame. It is a very mature approach that works believe it or not. You do not need the focus to be on the other party. You dont care about the other party. You are there to clear yourself. Clearing yourself involves you speaking on your behalf.

Judges and cops dont want to be totals butts and ruin people's career. If you treat and approach them with respect, you would be surprised at what will occur.


Scenario #2:

Linuss: Judge, it was all him. Yeh I was driving 50 but the limit was 55. I am right, he is wrong. Why me? Whine whine whine

Judge: Yeh yeh I have heard this all before, the fact remains, you rear ended him and the law is the law. Fine stands, ticket stands.


Remember: this is not a jury trial, it is you, the judge and the officer.
 
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AK, you should write profesionally... Day time soap operas! Seriously LMAO...
 
Never said I didn't...


:)
 
I'm just gonna put this out there for you Linuss.......

What if, after your rant, someone had simply said: "I cant believe some people. I've had people make illegal lane changes in front of me soooooo many times. Hopefully, it's a learning experience to expect people to do the enexpected. Hope everything works out for you."
 
If you want cuddly feel good, go see your momma. :)

If you want practical real world, tried and true information on how to resolve the issue...well you got several options. :)
 
RESQ_5_1 said:
I'm just gonna put this out there for you Linuss.......

What if, after your rant, someone had simply said: "I cant believe some people. I've had people make illegal lane changes in front of me soooooo many times. Hopefully, it's a learning experience to expect people to do the enexpected. Hope everything works out for you."
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Would have elicited a completely different response from me other than "Accept your fault"
 
I suoppose sympathy for someone's situation isn't practical in EMS. Sometimes you just need to know someone is on your side. I'm sure he'll get plenty of judgement in court.

I'm glad that I was brought up to put myself in someone else's shoes before commenting on their situation.
 
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I have been in his shoes which enables me to dispense very useful advice and possibly avoid a whole lot of other issues which may affect him later on, especially in his career.

See the abuse I get for trying to help out a soon to be fellow medic in preserving his career and learning a little bit about how things can work in real life?

Guess I should just experience life and keep it all to myself and not share any common experiences, regardless of how negative the outcome may be for the person.

We were all young, dumb and full of &%* at one time in our life who knew everything, could do no wrong and certainly didn't need to listen to anyone else as they could not possibly know, appreciate or understand the situation we are in.
 
No akf, I don't fault you for what you did, not in the least, but at the time of my original post I was still a very angry little person who couldn't be reasoned with.


I still can't be reasoned with. I'm a stubborn person :P


While I appreciate your advice, I can't do any other plea aside from not guilty. A guilty or no contest plea would be severely detrimental to me and my financial situation. Yes, there is a chance that if I plea no contest, the judge could lessen the fine, but there are no guarantees that they will lessen it, and as it stands, it is a $300 fine.

My most logical bet is to plea not guilty, because no matter what amount of culpability I may have, it should not amount to guilt, let alone ALL the guilt. I'm doing a not guilty plea, and getting my due process. The state is going to have to prove that I am at fault, and convince the jury of such.

Pleading not guilty would also give me the ability to deny payment from my insurance company if he chooses to make a claim.


While I can still lose the case, the chance of it getting dismissed is much greater (in fact, ONLY chance) then if I go no contest. Even if I plead no contest, AND the judge for some reason chose not to incur a fine or points on my license, my insurance company would still see it as an at fault accident on my behalf, which is unacceptable.



So don't think I don't appreciate your opinion. Heck, you shared the same exact opinion of my criminal law teacher, who stated I should go no contest. But after weighing my options, speaking to my parents, speaking to others I respect, and speaking to my sister who is in law school, I chose a different path.



And I'll actually be getting in contact with my state representative to see what can be done about getting the law changed, because as it stands now, those who do the hitting are guilty, no matter the circumstance. Thing about Texas is, their leglislature is in session only once every two years, so it will be of no help to me.



It might be an uphill battle, but I deem it right.
 
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It's one thing to provide information that will be helpful to someone in later years, but it helps to at least put it in a tone and cadence that doesn't appear confrontational. I myself have many life experiences and wisdom to offer. I try to provide it with tact and courtesy.

The advice you gave, I'm sure, was wise and just. I simply feel it could have been worded differently. Referring to the first post I made on this thread, that was simply a starting point.

It appeared to me to be abrasive and harsh. Not an approach I felt was warranted under the circumstances. But, that's just my opinion. I don't wish to start an argument, and I don't want to appear to be name-calling. It's difficult, if not impossible, to inflect tone of voice and key word stresses in this format. If I offended, I apologize.
 
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