Question: Revoked EMT License

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acapolo12

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So you were basically an ED Tech? Even if they wanted you to have an EMT cert for that, you’re not necessarily practicing under it like a higher level license. What state is this?

I concur with DrParasite about your “expiration” rather than revocation. I was thinking the same thing about your wording before reading their post.

Who ran the background check - a 3rd party online entity? If so, those are cursory in nature. If something showed up on that then it was likely criminal in a county you’ve lived in and it happened in the last seven years.

FYI, any EMS certification/licensure “revocation” is permanently listed on a state’s website of their EMS authority. At least for the several I’ve ever seen. This is public record and in the FOIA domain. The kind of thing that doesn’t/can’t go away.
Is working as an ER tech considered practicing if they want you to have the EMT license? This is the part that confuses me.
 

DrParasite

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I worked in a hospital but not on the road. They wanted us to keep the license up but working way outside of our scope. The hospital filed a complaint but nothing came of it because the job description was outside the normal EMT scope of practice.
Wait a minute... you were employed by a hospital, working in a job outside of your EMT scope of practice (your words not mine). You're working in an ER, not in an EMS capacity, but your employer (the hospital) wanted/required you to keep your license up. Then the hospital (aka your employer) files a complaint with someone (I'm guessing DHHS), but nothing came of it, because your job description was outside of the normal EMT scope of practice. and someone revoked your EMT license through factors that you haven't really explained, but it's showing up on a background check. You say it was for failing to complete CE, but that's not grounds for a revocation of an EMT cert in most states.

I'll be honest, your best bet is to call DHHS directly. something sounds really fishy about your story. best to get it clarified so you can properly respond to it when it shows up in your background check.

Because if you tell the same story you told us to a hospital, and are competing against other new grads who don't have a medical license revocation on their background, I can see no hospital wanting to touch you with a 10 foot pole.
 
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acapolo12

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It doesn’t show up on normal background checks, it only showed up on the one where I had to get finger printed before starting med school. It has never shown up when a job has done a background check
 

DrParasite

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They audited me after I reapplied for my EMT license and i never sent in my CE’s.
ahhhh, now it's making more sense. you reapplied for your EMT license, filled out the paperwork saying you did all the CE, signed a statement saying and such, and they granted you a new card. Then you got unlucky by being the recipient of a random audit, where they found that you lied on your application when you said you did all your CEs (or couldn't/didn't provide evidence that you actually completed the CE that you had been required to do), and they revoked your EMT certification.

Now I get it. So the revocation was appropriate and has nothing to do with your employer. I doubt anyone at DHHS will remove the revocation from your record because you did commit the "crime" that resulted in your certs being accurately revoked, but give them a call, and see what they say.

But if I was a hospital, saw that you lied to a regulatory agency in order to renew your medical certification, then I wouldn't touch you with a 10 foot pole. Because if you are willing to do that for EMT, then what is going to stop you from doing that for your MD license? YMMV

Oh, and it likely didn't show up on a criminal background check because it isn't a crime... but for any healthcare position, rest assured they will search for any actions taken against by you a state regulatory agency
 
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acapolo12

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ahhhh, now it's making more sense. you reapplied for your EMT license, filled out the paperwork saying you did all the CE, signed a statement saying and such, and they granted you a new card. Then you got unlucky by being the recipient of a random audit, where they found that you lied on your application when you said you did all your CEs (or couldn't/didn't provide evidence that you actually completed the CE that you had been required to do), and they revoked your EMT certification.

Now I get it. So the revocation was appropriate and has nothing to do with your employer. I doubt anyone at DHHS will remove the revocation from your record because you did commit the "crime" that resulted in your certs being accurately revoked, but give them a call, and see what they say.

But if I was a hospital, saw that you lied to a regulatory agency in order to renew your medical certification, then I wouldn't touch you with a 10 foot pole. Because if you are willing to do that for EMT, then what is going to stop you from doing that for your MD license? YMMV
just trying to figure out if it’s something worth dropping out of medical school over. It’s going to cost me about $200,000 and Idon’t want to waste the money if I won’t be able to get licensed. Appreciate everyone input
 

DrParasite

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just trying to figure out if it’s something worth dropping out of medical school over. It’s going to cost me about $200,000 and Idon’t want to waste the money if I won’t be able to get licensed. Appreciate everyone input
honest answer? no clue. no one here can answer that. only you can decide if you want to drop out of medical school

If I'm not mistaken, you can get licensed (once you finish med school you become an MD, and get licensed to practice with more exams), however getting a job might be harder. fact check me on that though, because I could be completely wrong.

Instead of asking a bunch of EMS people, why don't you call some hospitals' HR departments? see what they say. be honest with them, and ask them "My EMT certificate was revoked for falsifying my renewal paperwork. will that prevent me from getting hired by your hospital after I graduate and I am looking for hospitals to do my residency at?"
 

DrParasite

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@acapolo12 Apparently you are in good company on people who were suspended/revoked for failing to do CE. Apparently, there are A LOT of EMTs and paramedics who got in trouble for this (21 pages worth over the past 10 years):

All that information is publicly available at https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/0,5885,7-339-73970_5093_28508-132623--,00.html#Reports

You'll likely find your name somewhere on that list, or on one of the other lists, depending on when the action was taken.

Based on this information, I sincerely doubt you are getting the revocation removed, as disciplinary action was taken against you. The details about your personal case might mitigate your particular situation, but that will be up to the individual hospital. Some might not care what you did previously, while others will make it a dealbreaker, and it's completely their choice and no one on here can answer that for you.

I'm not trying to run salt in your wound, but you should really reach out to a hospital recruiter, or ask one of your med school career services people (they have those right? just like for undergrad) what their thoughts are on this topic. They will be able to give you much more relevant advice, as well as provide guidance based on in hospital hiring practices.
 

akflightmedic

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Meh, the mere fact the poster could not just lay out the facts in the first post is concerning. Still trying to obfuscate what transpired. You have people here who will spend their time helping you research, people who will share their knowledge....yet, you are unable to just lay it out in the very first post transparently.

Sad really...

Medical Ethics is a big deal in most programs...when you try to explain away why your EMT license was revoked to medical board admissions or investigations, my advice is to be forthcoming right out the gate. State the mistake, own it, say what you have learned and what you will do or never do in order to not repeat said mistake. Do NOT try to minimize it, lessen the severity of it, or shift any of the blame. This is all you 100%.
 

Carlos Danger

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When I got accepted to medical school it showed up on my background check
What did you tell the medical school when they asked you about it? Obviously they admitted you anyway.

Regardless of the specifics of this thing, if it showed up on the background check that your medical school did, it will likely show up on the background checks that will be done by residency programs and employers and credentialing bodies and even the state BOM. My guess is that it can probably be explained away to whoever asks you about it in the future the same way you apparently explained it away to your medical school, and that this thing is not a threat to your career in medicine. However, you will almost certainly have to answer for this again, and simply counting on the fact that no one will care is a risky proposition.

I would not drop out of medical school right now if I were in your shoes, but I would involve a lawyer who is familiar with these issues ASAP, or at least seek the counsel of a member of your med school faculty who may be familiar with credentialing and licensure issues.
 
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Akulahawk

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In addition to much of the above advice, I would add: the ethics of this will be something that will follow you anywhere you go in the medical field. Whomever is evaluating you for whatever position will likely see the revocation and look into it a bit. Since licenses aren't revoked without cause, that's what they'll cause them to be curious. What they'll find is that you were audited, discovered to have lied on a renewal application (essentially claiming you did your CE when you actually hadn't) and your license was subsequently revoked. Regardless of whether or not it significantly impacts your future career, I cannot say, but it will come up again and again and you'll have to explain this for a long time.

My own Paramedic License was recently up for renewal. The system showed that I was NOT on an audit list. I could have checked a little box attesting that I've done all the CE, submitted my application, paid my fees, and completed the CE shortly afterward. I likely could have gotten away with it indefinitely. I chose NOT to do it. I completed my CE and renewed my license after having completed ALL of my CE. I won't have to ever explain how I renewed my license without doing all the CE first. Also, had I been discovered, that info could have been forwarded to the RN board and they'd possibly take action against my RN license. This way, I'm all good and I don't have to worry about any of that stuff.

Ethics... do the right thing and you'll never have to later explain doing the wrong thing.
 

FiremanMike

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In addition to much of the above advice, I would add: the ethics of this will be something that will follow you anywhere you go in the medical field. Whomever is evaluating you for whatever position will likely see the revocation and look into it a bit. Since licenses aren't revoked without cause, that's what they'll cause them to be curious. What they'll find is that you were audited, discovered to have lied on a renewal application (essentially claiming you did your CE when you actually hadn't) and your license was subsequently revoked. Regardless of whether or not it significantly impacts your future career, I cannot say, but it will come up again and again and you'll have to explain this for a long time.

My own Paramedic License was recently up for renewal. The system showed that I was NOT on an audit list. I could have checked a little box attesting that I've done all the CE, submitted my application, paid my fees, and completed the CE shortly afterward. I likely could have gotten away with it indefinitely. I chose NOT to do it. I completed my CE and renewed my license after having completed ALL of my CE. I won't have to ever explain how I renewed my license without doing all the CE first. Also, had I been discovered, that info could have been forwarded to the RN board and they'd possibly take action against my RN license. This way, I'm all good and I don't have to worry about any of that stuff.

Ethics... do the right thing and you'll never have to later explain doing the wrong thing.
I dropped my Fire Inspector card years ago because I hadn't done any of the CE. I didn't even apply to renew it, despite everyone around me saying "dude just do it, if they audit you, drop it then".

For me, I don't feel comfortable checking a box saying I swear I did the CE when I didn't. Just like I don't feel comfortable signing my name to CE rosters for classes I wasn't present for, even though this is done all the time.
 

jgmedic

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They tell you, in advance, whether you're going to be audited?
CA does this now with the new online licensing system, when you sign in it says audit or no audit. Not worth the risk, 48 hours of CE's is not that bad.
 

silver

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What did you tell the medical school when they asked you about it? Obviously they admitted you anyway.

Regardless of the specifics of this thing, if it showed up on the background check that your medical school did, it will likely show up on the background checks that will be done by residency programs and employers and credentialing bodies and even the state BOM. My guess is that it can probably be explained away to whoever asks you about it in the future the same way you apparently explained it away to your medical school, and that this thing is not a threat to your career in medicine. However, you will almost certainly have to answer for this again, and simply counting on the fact that no one will care is a risky proposition.

I would not drop out of medical school right now if I were in your shoes, but I would involve a lawyer who is familiar with these issues ASAP, or at least seek the counsel of a member of your med school faculty who may be familiar with credentialing and licensure issues.
To add, you have to answer if you have ever had a license revoked or disciplinary action taken against you when applying for residency through ERAS and later on in applying for a state medical license (similar for every other licensed provider). I would 100% speak to your dean of students about this as soon as possible.
 

mgr22

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CA does this now with the new online licensing system, when you sign in it says audit or no audit. Not worth the risk, 48 hours of CE's is not that bad.
Wow, I never heard of specific audits announced in advance of general behavior to be audited. I wonder how much we could reduce the national debt if the IRS told, say, 50 million taxpayers they were going to be audited.
 

Akulahawk

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My own Paramedic License was recently up for renewal. The system showed that I was NOT on an audit list.
They tell you, in advance, whether you're going to be audited?
CA does this now with the new online licensing system, when you sign in it says audit or no audit. Not worth the risk, 48 hours of CE's is not that bad.
Yes, they most certainly do this. I don't know if it's a feature or a bug, but the system actually tells you in advance if you're on an audit list (randomly selected for audit) before you submit your application. This way, you get to abandon your application before you actually commit a crime. The way California does their CE, it's not bad at all. You can do all your CE online, as long as it's considered by the state to be instructor-led. Unfortunately for me, I can read very quickly so I can get to taking exams pretty quickly. The online vendors have to use a timer system before they'll allow you to take an exam to allow for appropriate "seat time." Before they implemented this, I could get through "8 hours" or more of CE credit in about 4 hours. (Yes, I'm that fast of a reader.) They limit CE to just 12 hours per 24 hour period, so that definitely slows things down from how it used to be done. If you're a California Paramedic doing online CE, and you're close to a renewal date, plan to get going at least 5 days ahead of time. This way you can do your CE and have a small cushion if you can't do enough CE in 1 day and still be able to submit your renewal application with all CE completed. At least since the renewal process can be done online you can do it at 3 am when you finally complete all your CE... 😂

And no, it's not worth the risk. You can be audited later. They won't tell you about that... until you get notified with a "hey, you're getting audited" letter.
 

akflightmedic

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Wow, I never heard of specific audits announced in advance of general behavior to be audited. I wonder how much we could reduce the national debt if the IRS told, say, 50 million taxpayers they were going to be audited.
Or just a very select dozen or so...
 

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