Pt sitting on the bench

[Craig Alan Evans]

There is no increased liability.

If there were, every patient who set foot in a Hospital would have to be strapped down to a bed, couldn't be in the waiting room, and couldn't go to the bathroom by themselves.

If against policy, of course. If you make someone walk, perhaps. If they want to sit and walk, by all means.

Just more EMS rubbishthinking.

If a patient is caused more harm in your care it will not be rubbish thinking. It doesn't matter what you think is fair. Ask yourself, "Am I responsible for the patient's welfare?" If you answer yes then why take the chance. Why be cavalier about the patients safety? I don't let anyone walk and I don't get any flack from any type of patient. I just professionally say, "no, you have done enough today. Let me do my job and take care of you." I keep their safety belts on for the ride and have had no complaints in over 18 years of doing so. Just my take.

 

[Arovetli]

If a patient is caused more harm in your care it will not be rubbish thinking. It doesn't matter what you think is fair. Ask yourself, "Am I responsible for the patient's welfare?" If you answer yes then why take the chance. Why be cavalier about the patients safety? I don't let anyone walk and I don't get any flack from any type of patient. I just professionally say, "no, you have done enough today. Let me do my job and take care of you." I keep their safety belts on for the ride and have had no complaints in over 18 years of doing so. Just my take.

Nothing cavalier about it. No harm will be increased. No liability will increase. No chances taken. No lives dangling over a precipice. Just local protocol, tradition, and preference. Of course, safety belts are a must. Where they sit is not, unless it falls in an aforementioned category.

 

[Dwindlin]

I bench seat people frequently. The caveat being our new trucks had shoulder straps in the bench positions (but I did it before we the new trucks too).

I'll also walk a patient in if they are going to triage. If they refuse the cot but aren't going to triage (rare but happens), I'll grab a wheelchair.

 

[MMiz]

It was pretty standard back in the day to ask compliant psych patients if they'd rather be on the stretcher or the bench seat.

Sometimes after being in a hospital bed for a day or two they just wanted to sit up, put on a seat belt of negligible value, and talk for the 15 minute trip.

I never had an issue, and I never heard of issues, but I was too naive to know any better.

It's more common to see ambulances with multiple individual seats with shoulder harnesses in the back. Seems like good policy for protecting the provider, and a patient on a cot with three straps and a shoulder harness seems like good protection for the patient.

 

[Rialaigh]

Frequent fliers who legs work get the airway seat or bench on nearly every transport that I pick them up for (I'm talking about "not sick" people). I don't ask them if they want the stretcher, they usually don't get a choice unless they feel like pitching a huge fit.

 

[RocketMedic]

Frequent fliers who legs work get the airway seat or bench on nearly every transport that I pick them up for (I'm talking about "not sick" people). I don't ask them if they want the stretcher, they usually don't get a choice unless they feel like pitching a huge fit.

This. Cooperative, not-sick, perfectly healthy people can walk if they want.

 

[RocketMedic]

If a patient is caused more harm in your care it will not be rubbish thinking. It doesn't matter what you think is fair. Ask yourself, "Am I responsible for the patient's welfare?" If you answer yes then why take the chance. Why be cavalier about the patients safety? I don't let anyone walk and I don't get any flack from any type of patient. I just professionally say, "no, you have done enough today. Let me do my job and take care of you." I keep their safety belts on for the ride and have had no complaints in over 18 years of doing so. Just my take.

Does everyone get an IV and O2 as well, just in case?

 

[Bullets]

I think they should always ride on the cot with all restraints including the four point chest harness that everyone seems to like to tuck in behind the head. If they can walk into the ER then why do they need an ambulance. I think that's a big liability there. Either roll them on your cot or use a wheelchair. They are in your care and you are the trained professional that should know better. They are the proud and unclear thinking patient. If they were to trip and fall on the way in and exascerbate their injuries then shame on you.

You're adorable.

Patients are given a choice of seating. Cots are for sick people, iF they walk to the ambulance then they walk to the ER. Hospital doesn't care either way, usually we can triage to the waiting room in those cases. Show me evidence the cot is safer...

If your not in chalk, you can walk

 

[mgr22]

Some patients are more comfortable sitting up, with their legs dependent. I don't see any significant risks outweighing that comfort if they're buckled on the bench.

 

[abckidsmom]

It was pretty standard back in the day to ask compliant psych patients if they'd rather be on the stretcher or the bench seat.

Sometimes after being in a hospital bed for a day or two they just wanted to sit up, put on a seat belt of negligible value, and talk for the 15 minute trip.

I never had an issue, and I never heard of issues, but I was too naive to know any better.

It's more common to see ambulances with multiple individual seats with shoulder harnesses in the back. Seems like good policy for protecting the provider, and a patient on a cot with three straps and a shoulder harness seems like good protection for the patient.

One elopement ended that for me. It's the ones with a plan who are calm and smooth. I had a guy bolt on the walk into the ER and cut himself hundreds of times with glass in the nearby woods.

That was a long day and the lesson was that I can't see inside of diseased brains well enough to judge. They ride on the stretcher, all of them. I worry about them getting a wild hair and jumping out the back doors, but I know that's not a fight I can fight in close quarters with the door open anyway.

/Musings of a medic with 40 highway miles to the psych facility.
/bad daydreams lead to preplanning

 

[abckidsmom]

Some patients are more comfortable sitting up, with their legs dependent. I don't see any significant risks outweighing that comfort if they're buckled on the bench.

Watch a couple of crash test videos comparing the impact of airway seat, cot and bench riders. The side facing bench is for sure not nearly as safe as the cot with 5 seatbelts.

 

[mgr22]

Watch a couple of crash test videos comparing the impact of airway seat, cot and bench riders. The side facing bench is for sure not nearly as safe as the cot with 5 seatbelts.

Yes, I understand the risk is something greater than zero, as is the risk of even treating such patients. I'm not suggesting we ignore risks, but rather weigh them with respect to patient comfort.

 

[Craig Alan Evans]

You're adorable.

Patients are given a choice of seating. Cots are for sick people, iF they walk to the ambulance then they walk to the ER. Hospital doesn't care either way, usually we can triage to the waiting room in those cases. Show me evidence the cot is safer...

If your not in chalk, you can walk

Clearly we are going to have to agree to disagree. I may be conservative, but when the unexpected happens...and it will. I will be prepared. Be safe out there.

 

[Craig Alan Evans]

You're adorable.

Patients are given a choice of seating. Cots are for sick people, iF they walk to the ambulance then they walk to the ER. Hospital doesn't care either way, usually we can triage to the waiting room in those cases. Show me evidence the cot is safer...

If your not in chalk, you can walk

Do you give children a choice as well, or do you properly restrain them for their own good. With all due respect you seem to approach EMS transport with the outlook of a limo service. "Please choose your most comfortable seating position." You are giving these choices to people who have not watched the crash test videos or read the LODD reports of ambulance crashes. Are we there to give them a comfortable pleasant ride or a safe ride? You may ride in these vehicles 10-20 times a day, but they do not. Ask yourself, are you making your day easier or providing the best service to your patients? If an MI patient insists on walking do you allow it? I can't fathom your line of thinking.

 

[Dwindlin]

Do you give children a choice as well, or do you properly restrain them for their own good. With all due respect you seem to approach EMS transport with the outlook of a limo service. "Please choose your most comfortable seating position." You are giving these choices to people who have not watched the crash test videos or read the LODD reports of ambulance crashes. Are we there to give them a comfortable pleasant ride or a safe ride? You may ride in these vehicles 10-20 times a day, but they do not. Ask yourself, are you making your day easier or providing the best service to your patients? If an MI patient insists on walking do you allow it? I can't fathom your line of thinking.

Big difference between kids and adults (legally anyways). It's not my job to be their mommy. If their heart is about to explode but they insist on walking (despite me telling them it will kill them) then have at it. I can't (nor should I) force anything on a patient. I can simply give them the facts to the best of my knowledge and let them make their own decisions.

 

[Craig Alan Evans]

Big difference between kids and adults (legally anyways). It's not my job to be their mommy. If their heart is about to explode but they insist on walking (despite me telling them it will kill them) then have at it. I can't (nor should I) force anything on a patient. I can simply give them the facts to the best of my knowledge and let them make their own decisions.

Do you need the government to pass laws to make you care for your patients. That's an amazing answer you gave there. I am thinking you are far to quick to acquiesce to your patient's want vs taking care of their needs. In over 18 years I have never had to make them do anything and they always seem to do what I think is in their best interest.

 

[CritterNurse]

My patients all ride in on the stretcher. The only time we didn't take the stretcher into the ER with the patient was a patient with a bad laceration on her hand from a kitchen accident. When we called in the report the ER said to take her to triage in a wheelchair. She couldn't drive herself because of the injury, and the nearest taxi service would have taken at least 20 minutes to get to her location, and no one else in the family was able to drive.

 

[RocketMedic]

Do you give children a choice as well, or do you properly restrain them for their own good. With all due respect you seem to approach EMS transport with the outlook of a limo service. "Please choose your most comfortable seating position." You are giving these choices to people who have not watched the crash test videos or read the LODD reports of ambulance crashes. Are we there to give them a comfortable pleasant ride or a safe ride? You may ride in these vehicles 10-20 times a day, but they do not. Ask yourself, are you making your day easier or providing the best service to your patients? If an MI patient insists on walking do you allow it? I can't fathom your line of thinking.

Craig, I take the safest place in the vehicle possible, every time.

 

[RocketMedic]

One elopement ended that for me. It's the ones with a plan who are calm and smooth. I had a guy bolt on the walk into the ER and cut himself hundreds of times with glass in the nearby woods.

That was a long day and the lesson was that I can't see inside of diseased brains well enough to judge. They ride on the stretcher, all of them. I worry about them getting a wild hair and jumping out the back doors, but I know that's not a fight I can fight in close quarters with the door open anyway.

/Musings of a medic with 40 highway miles to the psych facility.
/bad daydreams lead to preplanning

Honestly, its not my job to keep them in the truck. "He's running" is not really my issue.

 

[Rialaigh]

Do you need the government to pass laws to make you care for your patients. That's an amazing answer you gave there. I am thinking you are far to quick to acquiesce to your patient's want vs taking care of their needs. In over 18 years I have never had to make them do anything and they always seem to do what I think is in their best interest.

No, I need my patients to want treatment for me to treat.

And my guess is many medics are far to forceful in their care of their patient.


If you have never had a patient refuse what you think is best for them I want to know where your working....and what kind of amazing persuasive powers you have.

If it is something of the upmost importance then I will ask the patient three times. If they refuse that's fine. I am in no way charged with making medical decisions for responsive competent people, only to make suggestions for live saving/improving care.

I have a friend in NC who left a cardiac rosc on scene after he refused transport.(drug overdose). Alert, oriented, and of legal age, you can refuse basically anything.


Going back to the original question, I put the patient where I want the patient to sit, frequent fliers don't get the stretcher, if the patient condition warrants the stretcher they get it.

Placing the patient on a stretcher is the start of medical treatment, It is an option to use just like a stair chair. Do you place all patients whose house or apartment has stairs in a stair chair, of course not, we let them walk down the two stairs on the front of the porch, in the same way I deem that not all patients need the stretcher.