Privatized EMS in Placentia CA

rescue1

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I have no doubt it was done, but some places have a reputation for playing fast and lose with certain rules... as well as ambitiously trying to change them to suit your purposes.

It you had gotten out of Monmouth and Ocean county, you would have seen an even more interesting environments. you have volunteers beating medics to the scene, cancelling the medics, and handling patients all on their own.... or even stranger, 2 to 3 paramedic units covering an entire county, all in SUV Flycars.... and NO FD involvement in EMS..... Very different compared to some other states.

It's far from perfect, and some places are more questionable than others, but if you could make it there, you could make it anywhere.
Haha yeah, I know MONOC as a service is pretty soulless, it's just where my prehospital ride time for school happened to be. All the times we transported were due to extended volunteer response times--30+ minutes and the like, I'm assuming that's not the case throughout the state. I know they paid their medics kinda ****ty by Jersey standards too--a few guys I talked to were talking about going to Virtua or JCMC.


My buddy used to work TEMS and used to tell me stories about it--they used to cancel the Capital medics on almost everything. Honestly I'm all for that--I think ALS is extremely overused in most, if not all, urban systems. The whole volunteer thing I'm not particularly sold on, but that's a battle for another time.
 

jgmedic

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@DrParasite, I would put money that few if any OCFA guys will jump ship to this new Placentia FD, to go from a large, ALS, all risk agency to a 2 station BLS startup. Absolutely not. OCFA sucks to work with, not for.
 

CCCSD

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Depends on bennies, opportunities, etc. ground floor at a new department is nothing to sneeze at.
 

jgmedic

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Dude, it's OCFA, guys from all over SoCal leave their depts for them. Ive seen engineers and Capts drop to probie FF just be at OCFA. Ground floor is great but not when youre at one of the destination depts in SoCal.
 

Jim37F

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What sort of org/staffing is the new Placentia FD looking at? I.e. 3 or 4x Engines with 3 or 4 FFs plus a Ladder (or relying on OCFA Mutual Aid for one?) Just curious? I'm assuming at least one fire medic on each engine?

As far as the EMS goes, dec sounds like an interesting model, just skimming the other posts, are they really looking at a private to be a non transporting squad? With a second private being transport? I.e. is a Placentia FD engine gonna show up with a Lynch ALS unit AND an EAS BLS unit, with Lynch medic riding in on the EAS ambulance for ALS transports? Or cancel EAS and transport themselves, while EAS only takes BLS transports? (a la Seattle Medic One and AMR?)

Or is EAS losing Placentia totally and Lynch transports everything?

Anyways, I'm more interested in this bucking the whole OC system. I never worked with/for OCFA, only know their reputation largely thru these forums lol but it def sounds like it'd be a good thing to have other options beyond engine medics making $100K/yrand private min wage EMTs doing the actual transporting and wall holding...

I like my current system best. Fire is BLS/EMR only, with municipal third service ALS ambulance, Fire only going on maybe half of EMSs calls?

Hall definitely shows that a private co, run properly, can fill in. Hopefully Lynch/EAS can do that as well, vs some of the AMR divisions around...
 

wtferick

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It sounds like they are dropping Emergency Ambulance completely. Not sure.

As to mutual aid from OCFA. They would honestly only really be getting help from Yorba Linda and Villa Park. All the other cities are Metro Net (City Departments)

Good for Lynch nonetheless.
 

VentMonkey

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I like my current system best. Fire is BLS/EMR only, with municipal third service ALS ambulance, Fire only going on maybe half of EMSs calls?
All hail @Jim37F Fire Chief of all Fire Chiefs!
Hall definitely shows that a private co, run properly, can fill in. Hopefully Lynch/EAS can do that as well, vs some of the AMR divisions around...
Make no mistake about it, even our FD’s are convinced more ALS medical care sooner=the best outcomes for patients, SMDH.
 

FoleyArtist

Another Medic to Murse
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Lynch will provide ALS, EAS keeps BLS (as nothing happened on their end). the submitted model was dual medic squads working Kelley schedules. I haven't done the research on the rfp requirements but utilizing non transporting ambulance as "squads" are probably a cost saving measure, since Lynch already has 6-7 ALS ford transit vans. Does anyone know if FD even has to respond or will EMS be handled by EMS? How does it work in third service states/counties? FD for certain criteria like full arrests and MVAs?

I heard at my work from a FD captain working for a local la co. city, he predicts what will happen is Placentia becomes an island. he stated back when Rural Metro FD took contracts the other city fd municipalities would not provide mutual aid. (makes hand washing gesture) "the surrounding depts. would act like ,"you wanted the contract, handle it bro. you got it."" Surely if such a tactic was used OCFA will find a way to not provide mutual aid, so Yorba linda is out. would the new Placentia FD build an "alliance" with Fullerton/Brea FD, and Anaheim FD?
 

VentMonkey

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Does anyone know if FD even has to respond or will EMS be handled by EMS? How does it work in third service states/counties? FD for certain criteria like full arrests and MVAs?
It’s all speculative at this point, but a FFPM friend of mine is claiming it’ll be like up where I am. The FD will respond to all Echo, Delta, and Charlie calls—so, Priority 1’s & 2’s, or “L&S” calls—assuming that they’re going off of the foolproof EMD codes.
 

DrParasite

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@DrParasite, I would put money that few if any OCFA guys will jump ship to this new Placentia FD, to go from a large, ALS, all risk agency to a 2 station BLS startup. Absolutely not. OCFA sucks to work with, not for.
I think that's a pretty safe bet, however, if the pay and benefits are comparable, and they have a FF who is offered a captain position, or a captain who is offered a chief's position, especially if their chances of getting it at OCFA are slim..... Again, I think it will be offered, but I agree, I don't think many will take it, unless they really want to get off the ambulances.....
What sort of org/staffing is the new Placentia FD looking at? I.e. 3 or 4x Engines with 3 or 4 FFs plus a Ladder (or relying on OCFA Mutual Aid for one?) Just curious? I'm assuming at least one fire medic on each engine?
according to the article, it was 3 FT FFs and 1 reserve FF, and only two engines.... no ladder was mentioned. I'm guessing BLS only, as they have lynch in a non-transporting ALS QRV to handle the EMS calls
I like my current system best. Fire is BLS/EMR only, with municipal third service ALS ambulance, Fire only going on maybe half of EMSs calls?
I agree (although I think having career FFs only being EMR level is embarrassing, and if you want to be a career FD, you should at least be an EMT level department). A fully staffed EMS agency should be able to handle the majority of EMS calls without the FD to hold their hand, or stop the clock. Alas, too many places will over staff the FD first responders to compensate for an understaffed EMS system.... But that's another topic for another day...
It’s all speculative at this point, but a FFPM friend of mine is claiming it’ll be like up where I am. The FD will respond to all Echo, Delta, and Charlie calls—so, Priority 1’s & 2’s, or “L&S” calls—assuming that they’re going off of the foolproof EMD codes.
So they are going to send a lynch QRV with 2 ALS personnel and a 3 person BLS engine to all ALS coded calls? I can understand going on Echos (cardiac arrest and such, when you need muscle and hands, not necessarily ALS providers), or ALS calls if they are closer than the ALS squads (which shouldn't happen in most cases), but going on all calls sounds kinda redundant and wasteful to me.
I heard at my work from a FD captain working for a local la co. city, he predicts what will happen is Placentia becomes an island. he stated back when Rural Metro FD took contracts the other city fd municipalities would not provide mutual aid. (makes hand washing gesture) "the surrounding depts. would act like ,"you wanted the contract, handle it bro. you got it."" Surely if such a tactic was used OCFA will find a way to not provide mutual aid, so Yorba linda is out. would the new Placentia FD build an "alliance" with Fullerton/Brea FD, and Anaheim FD?
That would be my one area of concern. If the new Placentia FD had a major incident, OCFA would refuse to respond due to political BS, despite being the closest mutual aid provider. Still have that question about who is providing a ladder/special service for those structure fire calls handled by PFD, since they are only staffing two engines.....
 

ITBITB13

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In the city council meeting I could’ve sworn they said the PFD would staff a quint.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but flat out refusing to provide mutual aid is not only morally wrong, but AGAINST THE LAW.

Also, if I recall correctly, tons of firemen fighting against the PFD were up on the podium talking about how they love the city of placentia, serving it’s citizens, and whatnot. Now they lose, and everyone is throwing a fit.

I remember throwing a similar fit when I was 8, and my older brother wouldn’t let me play GoldenEye with him and his friends.
 

DrParasite

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In the city council meeting I could’ve sworn they said the PFD would staff a quint.
According to the article: "each of the two new fire engines coming to Placentia will be staffed by three full-time firefighters and a reserve firefighter. " I would imagine if they had ladders on top, they would have said that
Correct me if I’m wrong, but flat out refusing to provide mutual aid is not only morally wrong, but AGAINST THE LAW.
you are wrong: you have a legal obligation to protect your AHJ; unless you have a specific mutual aid contract in place, there is no requirement for you to provide assistance to others, especially if it puts your AHJ at risk (due to your resources being elsewhere and unable to provide services for your AHJ).
 
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GMCmedic

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Not having a quint is going to hurt their ISO rating. I assume someone factored that in, if not, that is a cost as well, just not a cost the government has to eat.
 

jgmedic

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I posted the report from Placentia, and it states they will have a quint, an engine and a patrol. I do agree that if there are "non-promotables" at OCFA that have a shot to jump up, then maybe they would leave, I have serious doubts about how high the pay will be, if the city is looking to save money, paying all those guys a comparable salary to the rest of OC(outside of Fullerton), is not gonna fly.
 

RocketMedic

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I wonder if Lynch and Emergency are going to work together to integrate their employees on one another’s rigs and stuff
 

Jim37F

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Manhattan Beach's E21 looks very suspiciously like a Quint, yet they call it an Engine...
How that affects things like ISO ratings (or anything else really), not a dang clue

If OCFA refuses to respond in a timely matter, isn't Placentia neighboring Anaheim and Brea with their own independent FDs? How do they feel about all this drama? On the other side of Brea is La Habra, an Orange County city that contracts with... LA County Fire Dept... it would be embarrassing for OCFA if LACo units in La Habra arrived in Placentia before OCFA did....
 

jgmedic

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Yeah that's a quint. I think OCFA can refuse to sign an auto aid agreement, but refusing to respond, i dont think thats legal.
 

Jim37F

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I agree (although I think having career FFs only being EMR level is embarrassing, and if you want to be a career FD, you should at least be an EMT level department).
Not sure why.

Our EMR level is the same as EMT-B in LA/OC. I cant think of anything I did as a State certified EMT in LA I cannot do as an EMR here...
It's mostly a handful of senior career FF1s who are close to retiring as FF1s, but we cant even convince everyone in the Dept to take the NREMT. But once those guys retire, that will be standard for everyone (its a requirement to graduate Recruit Academy, has been for a little while, so all us newer guys have it).
 

Virgil

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Not sure why.

Our EMR level is the same as EMT-B in LA/OC. I cant think of anything I did as a State certified EMT in LA I cannot do as an EMR here...
It's mostly a handful of senior career FF1s who are close to retiring as FF1s, but we cant even convince everyone in the Dept to take the NREMT. But once those guys retire, that will be standard for everyone (its a requirement to graduate Recruit Academy, has been for a little while, so all us newer guys have it).
Interesting, I guess I never really had much thought on protocols out there. What would a Basic's scope look like if EMR is comparable to LACo?
 
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