Police Based Paramedics

[Bullets]

But isn't a three to four person engine company responding to appropriately triaged calls just a more efficient use of available of personnel as opposed to assigning a second medic unit. Say that you're dispatched to a code/trauma/resp. distress call, I surrey hope that you're not trying to work that code with your two person ambulance crew. Assuming you don't have a mechanical compression device or a ventilator, one will have to bag and one will have to compress. That leaves you with no one to do...the rest. Instead of pulling a second medic crew and leaving their first due area uncovered, it will serve the community much better so send an engine, which probably wasn't going to be fighting a fire anyways, to assist the original medic.

No, its more efficient to have a bunch of BLS units, B/B Ambulances to respond to everything and then have a handful of Single or dual medic cars to respond to ALS coded calls and reduce the number of firemen need to cover the 5% of calls most cities actually do.

This would give you 3-4 providers on your worst regular calls, CPR. Realistically, if your EMTs are good, they can handle a trauma as wound care is a BLS skill.
Respiratorys don't require more than 3-4 providers

 

[rescue1]

But isn't a three to four person engine company responding to appropriately triaged calls just a more efficient use of available of personnel as opposed to assigning a second medic unit. Say that you're dispatched to a code/trauma/resp. distress call, I surrey hope that you're not trying to work that code with your two person ambulance crew. Assuming you don't have a mechanical compression device or a ventilator, one will have to bag and one will have to compress. That leaves you with no one to do...the rest. Instead of pulling a second medic crew and leaving their first due area uncovered, it will serve the community much better so send an engine, which probably wasn't going to be fighting a fire anyways, to assist the original medic.

Doesn't Seattle/King County Medic One do something like this? Or am I a crazy person

 

[rescue1]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201..._firefighters_at_odds_over_medical_calls.html

Fascinating example of a problem: “We don’t need to justify our jobs. Paramedics have to justify their jobs. They've got one role to play, and that’s it."

Now, in the US:

Toronto's fire woes aside, I think the graph provided is a little misleading, especially since it works with total numbers instead of per-capita data. Much of the growth of career departments is due to more suburban areas outgrowing their volunteer departments as opposed to bloated big city fire departments padding their ranks as fires dwindle. This happens, of course, but even around me, where fire doesn't run EMS unless there's rescue or a lift assist, there have been an increase in career firefighters as volunteer departments find themselves unable to respond in the daytime.
You also have departments where EMS is fully handled by FD, which of course is its own can of worms, but in that case it is not fire justifying itself by throwing on EMS first response.

And its unfortunate (and selfish!) that I have to say this, as long as EMS remains the undereducated low career growth job it is in most parts of America, I'm happy that there are fire departments where I can do EMS, make a decent wage, have a good retirement, and not get thrown under the bus if my company is unable to renegotiate a 911 contract.

 

[EMDispatch]

Quick related question:
Does anybody know anything about the NYPD ESU ambulances? How/When they are dispatched, or if they are even used?

 

[DrParasite]

Quick related question:
Does anybody know anything about the NYPD ESU ambulances? How/When they are dispatched, or if they are even used?

They have two ambulances, staffed by the ESU medical unit.

The NYPD ESU Emergency Medical Squad is a unit that provides ambulance service for both active and retired officers of all ranks. It is funded by the unions but operated by police officers from the ESU. The unit has 2 ambulances and 2 medical supply trucks.

They don't respond to calls in the normal 911 system, and I believe they are located in the former firehouse of FDNY Hook and Ladder 66 in Queens/Long Island City

 

[EMDispatch]

They have two ambulances, staffed by the ESU medical unit.

The NYPD ESU Emergency Medical Squad is a unit that provides ambulance service for both active and retired officers of all ranks. It is funded by the unions but operated by police officers from the ESU. The unit has 2 ambulances and 2 medical supply trucks.

They don't respond to calls in the normal 911 system, and I believe they are located in the former firehouse of FDNY Hook and Ladder 66 in Queens/Long Island City

Thanks

 

[NPO]

I don't know if its been mentioned but some National Parks Service ambulances are staffed by Ranger (law enforcement) Paramedics.

 

[drjekyl75]

The EMS system where I work the county Sheriff Dept has a paramedic division. They are non-transporting "chase" ALS units. They are funded by county dollars and first respond with BLS units to provide the ALS Intercept. They are well paid. They start around $18/hr and top out around $27/hr after 5-6 years.

 

[benasack2000]

Mattapoisett, MA Police EMS

 

[Jon]

I don't know if its been mentioned but some National Parks Service ambulances are staffed by Ranger (law enforcement) Paramedics.

The NPS has a VERY interesting EMS system.

Their larger parks provide EMS as a function of "Visitor and Resource Protection" along with the Law Enforcement Rangers. Many times, this means most of the LE Rangers are at least EMT's. Depending on the park, non-LE staff also work on the ambulances, and a handful of larger parks actually hire dedicated EMS folks, at least seasonally. Some also use volunteers. Smaller/urban parks often rely on outside support to manage much of the EMS calls of the park, while larger parks often don't have outside resources for significant distances.

The NPS also has a "Parkmedic" certification that ends up being a "paramedic-lite" certification between I-85 and I-99.

EMS is provided in a range of vehicles, from traditional ambulances in a handful of parks (maybe 20-30 out of ~400 units) to patrol cars, helicopters, and even bikes.

 

[thuisman]

Anyone know of departments in the U.S. that use police based paramedics? I only know of a couple and i know there are more. Thanks!

Andrew

In the county i live in, the sheriffs department has police paramedic units, (1 of only 2 depts in MI) it seems to work very well and I'm interested in working there in the future, I'm a paramedic student right now and they just recently started letting medic students ride along with them, so I did one and you really learn the more tactical side of things, like situational awareness. And in that county, police (even not medically trained) respond to ALL medicals. Which saved a couple paramedics lives when the guy came running at them with a knife. The county I work in, you only see police if dispatcher sees the need for them.

There are also multiple public safety depts around me that are police cross trained as firefighters, but only medically licensed to the MFR level (even though a lot of them are medics/EMT's)... I'd love to do something like that after working a few years as a medic

 

[NysEms2117]

In the county i live in, the sheriffs department has police paramedic units, (1 of only 2 depts in MI) it seems to work very well and I'm interested in working there in the future, I'm a paramedic student right now and they just recently started letting medic students ride along with them, so I did one and you really learn the more tactical side of things, like situational awareness. And in that county, police (even not medically trained) respond to ALL medicals. Which saved a couple paramedics lives when the guy came running at them with a knife. The county I work in, you only see police if dispatcher sees the need for them.

There are also multiple public safety depts around me that are police cross trained as firefighters, but only medically licensed to the MFR level (even though a lot of them are medics/EMT's)... I'd love to do something like that after working a few years as a medic

#1 quite a revive!
#2 The thing with sheriff department EMS units(I work for one) is that they are usually part time, and they are EMT'S or PARAMEDICS, not county sheriffs. They DO NOT carry firearms, handcuffs or anything of the sort. Generally, sheriff department EMS units hire LEO's for part time work though(my case). I am an EMT-B as an assistant for our CCT rig (3 person crew EMR(driver) EMT-B/AEMT- in back assisting the, CC-P/CCRN(Primary care provider). You have the "opportunity" to be a tactical medic, but very rarely do we do that, since about 80% of the Sheriffs dpt. EMS unit where i work are LEO's full time, we understand how incredibly stupid it is to be a "tactical medic" especially since most are un-armed.

 

[DrParasite]

The first dedicated "rescue squad" in a large US city was NYPD, long before EMT's. They had first aid training. They also carried the round canvas trampolines for peple to jump onto off buildings.
(There's something for your private ride!).

Sorry to bring up an old response (is @mycrofft still around?), but this is factually inaccurate. ESU was formed by a 1924 FD Order, asking Rescue 1 to train a contingent of Police Officers to become their ESU, and to "help" alleviate some of the emergencies in NYC. This was in the 70s or 80s, and due to the fact that NYC was having a huge fire problem and most of the bronx was burning, so the FD was too tied up with structure fires to deal with rescue assignments. ESU offered to assist them, and the FDNY provided the initial training.

So no, NYPD ESU was not the first dedicated rescue squad in a large city. FDNY Rescue 1 was formed in 1915.

 

[thuisman]

#1 quite a revive!
#2 The thing with sheriff department EMS units(I work for one) is that they are usually part time, and they are EMT'S or PARAMEDICS, not county sheriffs. They DO NOT carry firearms, handcuffs or anything of the sort. Generally, sheriff department EMS units hire LEO's for part time work though(my case). I am an EMT-B as an assistant for our CCT rig (3 person crew EMR(driver) EMT-B/AEMT- in back assisting the, CC-P/CCRN(Primary care provider). You have the "opportunity" to be a tactical medic, but very rarely do we do that, since about 80% of the Sheriffs dpt. EMS unit where i work are LEO's full time, we understand how incredibly stupid it is to be a "tactical medic" especially since most are un-armed.

I wasn't expecting such a quick reply!

Yeah the depts. that I was talking about are full time police, and do their normal police duties, but are also paramedics, and in the county one, you have to be a medic, they're armed and everything.

A different police dept I live near had a SWAT medic that follows the team around, they are fully trained in SWAT and armed. They carry all information about the team (blood type, meds, allergies)

 

[NysEms2117]

I wasn't expecting such a quick reply!

Yeah the depts. that I was talking about are full time police, and do their normal police duties, but are also paramedics, and in the county one, you have to be a medic, they're armed and everything.

A different police dept I live near had a SWAT medic that follows the team around, they are fully trained in SWAT and armed. They carry all information about the team (blood type, meds, allergies)

Well what i would tell you is, to not get that job. They are putting those officers in a tough tough spot.. There is enough to worry about in SWAT or shooter situation, now on top of that your telling officers they have to be proficient in emergency medicine seems super unnecessary, and dangerous to me. Also for "normal calls" they just carry a medic bag, and switch between chasing people and doing EMS? not sure if I agree with that, as well as i'd venture most departments are not like yours. I know my Sheriffs office EMS unit is not, and we are 80% LEO's.

 

[CanadianBagel]

Here's a CHP flight medic. Maryland State Police also has State Trooper Flight Medics.
Pretty cool gig. I'd probably do it if Missouri used police flight Medics.

 

[thuisman]

Well what i would tell you is, to not get that job. They are putting those officers in a tough tough spot.. There is enough to worry about in SWAT or shooter situation, now on top of that your telling officers they have to be proficient in emergency medicine seems super unnecessary, and dangerous to me. Also for "normal calls" they just carry a medic bag, and switch between chasing people and doing EMS? not sure if I agree with that, as well as i'd venture most departments are not like yours. I know my Sheriffs office EMS unit is not, and we are 80% LEO's.

Yeah I wasn't too interested in the SWAT part... but how is that dangerous? Its just 1 member of the team who's normally trained in police/SWAT, but also a medic, to provide emergency care right away if needed.

For the police medic units (we call them E-Units), they go where ever they're sent, they have everything an ALS ambulance has except a stretcher. If they get called to a medical, they're just first responding for the ambulance, they'll usually carry in the first in bag and the monitor. If they get called to a normal police call, they go about it like normal police do.

 

[NysEms2117]

If I'm breaching looking to find a hostile target I don't wanna be stuck doing medical treatment instead of shooting.... Why not have a sprinter car?


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[thuisman]

If I'm breaching looking to find a hostile target I don't wanna be stuck doing medical treatment instead of shooting.... Why not have a sprinter car?


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I don't think that's how it works, I'm sure they take care of the threat before medical treatment, plus there are many other members of the team to continue. The SWAT medic doesn't carry any big bagsor anything, they have a small backpack and pockets on their vests, kind of like pararescue jumpers, there's usually an EMS unit staging nearby, but obviously if he's critically shot, seconds count to get treatment

 

[thuisman]

If I'm breaching looking to find a hostile target I don't wanna be stuck doing medical treatment instead of shooting.... Why not have a sprinter car?


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He's one of the paramedic instructors at my school, I'll talk to him more about it when I see him next, but by the sound of it, the system works well.