petition regarding EMS instructors

[Zephyr]

Here's the deal. I have been an educator for several years at many institutions and realize one is not fired just for visiting a club. If they have tenure they would not be touched, and if they did violate the morality clause, they ought to be fired. Sorry, if this was the sole reason or case; their adults they knew the rules, they signed the contract.

Again signing a petition on the Internet is not worth one that would be on paper. At least one could wipe with that. If not careful, as a student one can definitely irritate and may change the fate of their future by not "knowing the full story".

Also, I ask how do you know they were great? Ever been to another Paramedic school? No? Then you really have nothing to evaluate and compare by.

Again, the only real course of action would be for the instructors to seek legal advice. Even having students attempt to take action appears unprofessional and may harm their future as educators.

R/r 911

Ridryder,

PLEASE READ the petition. Reading it would've saved a lot of back and forth posts. If you read it, you will find out that no specific reason was given when they were terminated. If you read the petition, you will most likely ascertain that the instructors were terminated for fraternizing with students. However, you will probably ascertain that this was PERCEIVED fraternization, because the "fraternizees" were FORMER students-- they had already graduated. Do I need to break it down further? Please READ it BEFORE you post another question about the petition.


"Also, I ask how do you know they were great? Ever been to another Paramedic school? No? Then you really have nothing to evaluate and compare by. "

I've spoken with their current and former students, and with Paramedics & EMTs with whom they work in the field. I've also spoken with Paramedics, students, and faculty of other Paramedic programs. I began conducting research on EMT & Paramedics programs in Fall 2006 before I decided to apply to this program in Summer 2008. I got information from multiple independent sources before I applied, and before I created the petition.


'Again signing a petition on the Internet is not worth one that would be on paper. At least one could wipe with that. If not careful, as a student one can definitely irritate and may change the fate of their future by not "knowing the full story". '

When I've received a decent number of signatures, I will PRINT OUT THE PETITION. I also have a hard copy version for those people who choose not to sign the online petition. Don't you think I thought of this already?

Does this help? Why does it seem like people assume I didn't do or plan any of this, merely because I didn't type it all here to inform you? If I elaborated in detail, how I came to apply to this program, and how I came to create a petition, I'd have a gazillion post count by now. And you would've been b!+ch!ng at me for another reason-- for posting too much! Aren't you happy that I don't bore you all to death?

 

[Zephyr]

Z, I generically don't "pass on" stuff and especially do not contribute to "pyramids". And I am affronted that you imply this website compromised my security the second I logged on. I'm not one of the longest time members, but I don't feel this post is in the site's intent.

mycrofft,

When did I ever state that you "pass on" stuff? When did I ever state that you "contribute to pyramids"?! When did I ever state that "this website compromised" your security?! Stop putting words in my mouth (or typing words on my keyboard).

Each time any bits of information go from your computer to this or any website and vice versa, the 0s and 1s don't go directly from your computer to the website. Anyone with the right know-how and the right gear can intercept the 0s and 1s AT your computer, AT the website's server, AND ANYWHERE in between. I wasn't implying any of the allegations you make. Do I need to break everything down? I hope this helps.

 

[reaper]

Z,

That's what I would like to know? Professors and instructors fraternize with students all the time. There is nothing wrong with it.

If you are pushing for their reinstatement, don't you think it would be good to learn the whole story? You are putting your rep on the line.

You have every right to start a petition. But, you should learn and post the truth. This will inform anyone that would sign it.

 

[Zephyr]

Z,

That's what I would like to know? Professors and instructors fraternize with students all the time. There is nothing wrong with it.

If you are pushing for their reinstatement, don't you think it would be good to learn the whole story? You are putting your rep on the line.

You have every right to start a petition. But, you should learn and post the truth. This will inform anyone that would sign it.

"Professors and instructors fraternize with students all the time. There is nothing wrong with it."

Tell that to SJU's Administration.


"If you are pushing for their reinstatement, don't you think it would be good to learn the whole story? You are putting your rep on the line. "

I collected information from multiple independent sources. Thanks for your concern.

 

[Ridryder911]

Are you sure those instructors want this to be done? I know I would want to preserve what little dignity I have left and possibility of being hired by another institution after being fired without someone rallying for my job. As well, if this is a potential legal issue one wants to be very, very discreet.

It is obviously, you do not understand the profession of academia. Professionalism and discretion is the utmost on those that work within the system.

Do you really think having someone not even associated with your program signing a petition would have weight or credibility to the Provo, Dean and Academic Board of Regents? I have seen legitimate professors be fired for various and multiple reasons and one of the first things is to be sure it is handled very discreetly and professionally. As well, most of those that do understand the tight network of EMS educators do NOT want any associated information about them until it has been cleared or handled legally, so they may work at another institution.

I realize students can be emotionally bonded to instructors. This is normal and to be expected, as the Dean or those responsible for firing recognizes also, hence the reason petitions never work. Now as good as the intentions maybe, those may have ruined or may possibly create problems for these instructors. Even if they are "superb, fantastic" whatever.. Now, thanks to those well meaning students is now publicizing about thier instructors associated with this program.

There are certain procedures and ways of handling things with diplomacy. This is NOT the way to do it. If you really are concerned with their career(s) I would be very cautious on posting without their permission, or anything associated with this incident.

R/r 911

 

[VentMedic]

Problem is unless one is an official student in those courses, signing this means NOTHING!

When I've received a decent number of signatures, I will PRINT OUT THE PETITION. I also have a hard copy version for those people who choose not to sign the online petition. Don't you think I thought of this already?

You seem to be missing a big point here. All signatures, internet or otherwise, are worthless unless the people have a vested interest in that program.

If BossyCow from Washington, Rid from Oklahoma and me from Florida signed the petition our signatures would be meaningless in NY. None of us are students at St. Johns. None of us would have any vested interest in whoever or whatever. And then, the signatures with names and addresses would be carried around by someone we do not know and have never met for a cause we have little or no knowledge about.

You have your petition on several EMS forums to collect signatures, which could even be bogus, on forums with anonymous posters.

 

[ffemt8978]

Thread closed until people leave their attitudes at the door.