Personal vehicle lighting

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Medic29

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Anyone have a list of states that allow for emergency lighting on your personal vehicle and their laws/regulations? For those who work paid or volunteer and will use their vehicle to get to scene or you witness or are at scene of an accident and no cop/EMS is on site?

I'm a Colorado resident and I've searched (maybe not hard enough lol) to find them
 
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POV lighting is a contentious subject that is pretty much frowned upon by the members here. I'd suggest you take a gander over at elightbars.org.

Some thoughts I posted on another forum:
Why
When it comes to installing lights on your vehicle, the first question you must ask yourself is this: WHAT DO I NEED THE LIGHTS FOR?

I know all of the rote answers, but I challenge each and every person that is thinking about installing lights to take several moments and think long and hard about this. Ultimately, it will be your decision but there are several factors you must consider and I will try to address some of these.

Laws
Next, you need to check out your state's laws concerning vehicle lights. All states limit what color you may use (amber is generally a safe color choice) and some states even restrict what lights may be placed on the vehicle. Some states also limit when the lights may be used, and some even have further restrictions concerning visibility and coverage arcs. For example, in my state of Washington, ALL vehicle lights (including amber) MUST be approved by the state patrol (ref http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.37.320)

Also, if you plan to cross state lines, make sure you are aware of the other states laws concerning vehicle lights too. Just because your legal in your state doesn't mean that you will be legal in the next one.

Liability
Bet you didn't think you would have to call your insurance company before you put lights in your vehicle, but this is important. Some insurance policies have clauses where they won't cover your vehicle if you perform modifications to your vehicle's protective systems, even if your adding to them. Adding lights increases the load on your electrical system, and therefore increases the risk of shorts, fires, and other problems. In addition, your insurance company may want to charge you higher premiums because you're now using your vehicle for something that is higher risk than normal everyday use. If you don't think it's that much more of risk, then why do you think you need lights?

Also, under liability, I'm going to take a moment and address the use of arrow sticks. THESE ARE A BAD IDEA for POV's. Simply put, once you use these, you are in effect directing traffic. This may be illegal in some areas, and legal in others. Regardless of the legality, you may assume the liability for directing traffic. What this means is that if you have your arrow stick going to the left to move traffic to the left, and a vehicle gets into an accident because of your traffic revision, you may be financially liable for the damages.

Coverage
It seems like most people forget that they need to protect their vehicle from every direction. Just because headlights and taillights cover the front and the back, doesn't mean that you can ignore side protection also. This is what makes the hide-a-way systems like taillight/headlight strobes, arrow stick, and lights on the dash a bad choice. They're great for front and back protection, but offer very little if any side protection.

Quantity
How much is too much? This is a case where less is better. A single rotator or strobe, positioned on the roof will offer better coverage with less current draw than having a full blown police package setup inside of the vehicle. In addition, this will allow you to be seen without affecting or distracting the other drivers that you're worried about.

Location
I covered this briefly earlier, but am going to expound on it here. Where do you put your lights? Low profile and hidden lights are great when they are not being used, but suffer some visibility problems once they are turned on. Any light that you have on your dash or inside of your vehicle will reflect across your entire windshield or rear window, and seriously affect your visibility while driving or spotting.

A full blown lightbar, besides being expensive, is generally unnecessary and can be a bigger distraction than you realize, to you and other drivers. A full blown external lightbar has a multitude of switches and generally requires a full switch panel to effectively operate.

So what is the best balance between the visibility of an external light bar, and the low profile lack of attention from hidden lights? Simple, a light that you can mount on your roof when needed and remove when not needed.

Types
LED's, strobes, and halogen...which one do you choose? Each has their advantage and disadvantage.

LED's are the new fad in lightbars, and in my opinion, aren't all they are cracked up and hyped up to be. Yes, they are very bright, but only if you are looking directly at them. They don't reflect off of other objects the way strobes and halogen do. This makes them very good for rear protection (such as brake lights and turn signals) but not so good for front protection. In addition, while their bulbs last longer, they are more expensive to purchase and repair if something goes wrong. On the up side, they draw less current that strobes or halogens.

Strobes are the best at attracting somebody's attention when they aren't looking directly at you. The down side is that they can reflect back and affect your vision more than any other light. They tend to draw the most current, and often times require a seperate power supply for them. In addition, replacing bulbs in not always a cheap proposition. A single external strobe can provide simultaneous 360 degree protection when it flashes.

Halogen rotators have fallen out of favor because they aren't as flashy as strobes or LED's, but they are the best bang for your buck. Bulbs are cheap and easy to replace, they have a moderate current draw, and generally don't require a seperate power supply. The draw back is that the rotator can only protect you in the direction that the mirror is facing, which means that while it will cover 360 degrees, it doesn't do it at the same time. There is a time lapse as the mirror rotates the 360 degress.
 
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I have headlights on my car. One of the bulbs is out, so I am going to the parts store tomorrow to get a replacement bulb. Those are the only lights I have in the car.
 
I don't know too many people who are strictly volunteer EMS providers who run lights on their personal vehicles unless they have a long distance to travel to the station or their agency allows them to respond to the scene / "first respond" (respond as a first in, non-transport, with transport on the way).

It seems more common amongst volunteer firefighters who may or may not also be involved in EMS where it is more commonly accepted that they respond directly to the scene.
 
It wouldn't be just for responding to scene. Small towns and cities I can see that. But I live in Denver where people here suck at driving from the start (not everyone but many). Everyday there is some kind of accident and I just thought at the very least the lights would come in handy when you stop and wait for the police to get there.

@ ffemt8978 - That is a lot to consider and I will look into all of that before I decide to invest in anything and then to take the time to install. Thank you.
 
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Medic29 said:
It wouldn't be just for responding to scene. Small towns and cities I can see that. But I live in Denver where people here suck at driving from the start (not everyone but many). Everyday there is some kind of accident and I just thought at the very least the lights would come in handy when you stop and wait for the police to get there.
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I highly advise against this idea.

Just my opinion.
 
Sounds like a great way to get a bad rep. I can guarantee once the crew clears the call, the first words out of their mouths will be "who the **** was that idiot!?!?"
 
Unless I'm "working" with an outfit that's willing to take the liability of making my POV into an Emergency Vehicle, I'm not going to outfit my POV with extra emergency lighting. If I were to do so on my own, it'd be to simply augment my amber turn-signal/hazard lights with strobes and nothing more. If anything, I'd rather put a better communication system in... oh, wait. I did! ;)

You see, once my car becomes an EV, it is subject to annual inspections by the CHP and must carry all the stuff required by the CHP... Then there's the whole coordination of insurance if I get into a crash. Am I covered by my own insurance or the organization's?

IMHO, don't do it unless you have clear legal authority to do it.
 
truetiger said:
I can guarantee once the crew clears the call, the first words out of their mouths will be "who the **** was that idiot!?!?"
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I was thinking the exact same thing.

Not to mention in a city like Denver I highly doubt you're going to be waiting any obscene amount of time for emergency services to show up.

The fact that people suck at driving should motivate you to keep driving and stay in your vehicle rather than wandering around on the side of the road obstructing traffic and risking getting hit by a car.
 
Yeah, don't do it, if you live in BFE and work for a volly fire department I would understand getting lighting and might not make fun of you for it. In Denver, I promise if you show up/ or present at a scene you will told to go away, heck you might get the cops called on you. Recently we have had some people using lighting on their vehicle to pull people over and rob them or sexually assault them. There was also one individual who had their face plastered all over the hospitals who was posing as an EMT and showing up to scenes with a bunch of stolen equipment.

Don't do it, I promise it will not be worth it. In Denver there is absolutely no need for lights, or to stop at accidents in general. What are you going to do there anyway? Anything that is worth stopping a doing you need equipment for anyway, also you will need medical direction to do it, which you don't have while not working. If you see a wreck, do your citizenly duty and call 911, there is no need to be a hero.
 
If you, even once or twice, turned up in some whacker-mobile to sit next to an accident with a big grin on your face saying, "I'm helping", I very much doubt you will ever be able to get a job where you aren't already known as, "that idiot".

I've never bought the whole, but "why not if it helps" or "I just thought it would be useful", argument. Charity still involves a certain amount of cost/benefit. You wouldn't give your life to decrease someone's chances breaking a nail. Because its not worth it. No matter how nice you are. By the same token, people don't invest potentially thousands of dollars, ruin their car, give their time and effort, risk litigation, maybe even risk their lives for absolutely no compensation, because they just want to help. People do it because they get something out of it that has nothing to do with wanting to help. They do it because they are unhealthily obsessed with the myth of the hero paramedic. They wanna feel part of the team. They want some bizarre adult equivalent of a child's honorary sherif's badge won after dragging their unconscious mother from a burning house. They wanna look cool.

Maybe thats not you. I'm having a crack at the idea, not you. I obviously have no idea who you are. But I'd challenge you to really ask yourself why you want those lights. If you're honest, it probably has bugger all to do with traffic safety.
 
A small nine-LED flashlight and six flares, plus a safety vest in my trunk with my CERT gear.
 
Just don't do it, the first thing out of my mouth would be for you to shut the lights off and move away from my scene. People already stop and stare at everything anyways, no need for them to see captain Ricky rescue - wanna be hero with his security guard light bar.

I'll tell you a story, we had a slip and fall 911 call at a mall. The engine and my rig pull in and this security guard in his little ford escape with his lights on HAULS A** past us and through the parking lot to get there first. So we pull up and see this dork with his lights on and his first aid kit out, what can he effectively do with a first aid kit? Nothing. But he can make my patient worse because he in effect caused her to move her neck - further damaging her cervical spine. So now we have to pull in behind this moron, and walk our gurney around the truck and his rescue mobile. These are the people that are so eager to "help" that they injure our patients or make our job a nightmare. First thing fire does is ask him to move his car and leave or back away. Guess what? He lost his job, 1. For hauling through the parking lot and getting in our way. 2. Further injuring our patient by asking her to try and get up with a fractured pelvis. It's just not worth it, not matter what it is, you sitting there with your lights will not benefit the patient in the 5 minutes it takes for a unit to get on scene. It will actually take longer for us to get there, because once they see your lights traffic will back up and we will have to fight through it.


Just don't do it, you'll be that guy we all make fun of. Do you run around with a fanny pack on full of first aid stuff too? Maybe some trauma sheers in your shirt pocket?

My guess is you wanna be cool and show off the lights and tell people you know "first aid". If you wanna feel cool, go to Emt school and get a job as an emt. But don't be another Ricky rescue that makes our job any harder than it has to be, please?
 
Negative ghost rider. Just a terrible idea from top to bottom. It may serve its actual intended purpose perhaps 0.0005% of the time. The rest, it just makes you look like a moron, insures you'll never ever get a job with the service responding....ever, and more importantly puts people in danger.
 
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Unless you are authorized by an agency to respond POV your really looking at a whole list of potential negative consequences up to and including arrest and a big fat ticket. Rural agencies allowing POV response give specific guidelines that responders must follow,usually. Now in rural Washington Bubba might run more lights on his F-350 than the responding engine but thats Bubba and thats rural Washington Bubbas chief probably has issued cards to his responders in accordance with the state patrol and will chew Bubba a new one if he is out useing his lights for anything but official agency business.

Now your in Denver, can you really not see what a tool you would be if you show up with your lit up POV even if its just to block traffic. We should give you the benefit of being new (please tell us you are) and assume you do not want to be "that guy". Even in the rural areas every police agency is different in how thier officers react to POV lighting and with the abuse that can and has taken place its not really well thought of anywhere.

Full disclosure my old department allowed lights in our POV's but it became a real big problem when certain members forgot that the green lights are asking for people to yield as a courtesy. Residents knew what the green lights mean and would gladly yield but like everything else one or two people abused the privledge. We also had to follow WSP guidelines which meant nothing other than the color green,nothing flashing and never more than 10 miles over the speed limit and that was reserved for the most serious incidents.
 
Turn it down a notch. The guy asked a question, answer it politely or offer your opinion and let's leave out the harsher adjectives please.
 
bstone said:
I have headlights on my car. One of the bulbs is out, so I am going to the parts store tomorrow to get a replacement bulb. Those are the only lights I have in the car.
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I also have taillights and a third brake light on mine. Clearly I'm a whacker.
 
SoCal911 said:
not benefit the patient in the 5 minutes it takes for a unit to get on scene. It will actually take longer for us to get there, because once they see your lights traffic will back up and we will have to fight through it.
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This is a very good point. The accident doesn't help traffic then add in flashy lights on a random car and people are going to rubberneck even more to try and figure out why a regular car is lit up like a christmas tree.

bigbaldguy said:
Turn it down a notch. The guy asked a question, answer it politely or offer your opinion and let's leave out the harsher adjectives please.
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Oh no...they are starting to turn BBG to the dark side!!! :D
 
NVRob said:
Oh no...they are starting to turn BBG to the dark side!!! :D
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Hey with enough lights on your car there is no dark side, it's all bright up in here :)
 
I have had lights in my car since 2005. In MA you need a permit issued by the registry that's signed off by your chief. Blue for police and Red for fire.

As for liability, that will varry from state to state. Our red light permits look exactly like our car registration but has the FD listed under the insurance part and say RED LIGHT PERMIT on them. We have had two members get in accidents and it's the department that pays out. That is of course if you are using the lights while authorized to do so. Responding to a call from outside the town lines when your not on the roster...not so much.

The couple accidents I have come across while off duty and out of town I just use my hazards. When I do, on rare occasions, respond in my POV to the station or the scene it's with extreme due regard.
 
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