Aidey
Community Leader Emeritus
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Force doesn't have to mean physical force.
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It takes quite a bit of force to subdue a 300 pound man. Your first sentence and last sentence contradict each other. Empty-hand submission techniques are appropriate for an individual actively resisting.
Resisting what? Paying the movie ticket? He wasn't a threat to the public safety. They were advised how to deal with him, and that he wouldn't understand. They chose to go forward with the "one size fits all" technique.
And you're telling me that four police officers, who are all most likely in reasonable shape, had to crush the airway of a 300 pound man who was likely in very poor shape and uncoordinated, in order to "get him to comply"?
What a bunch of garbage. They killed him, plain and simple.
Resisting what? Paying the movie ticket? He wasn't a threat to the public safety. They were advised how to deal with him, and that he wouldn't understand. They chose to go forward with the "one size fits all" technique.
And you're telling me that four police officers, who are all most likely in reasonable shape, had to crush the airway of a 300 pound man who was likely in very poor shape and uncoordinated, in order to "get him to comply"?
What a bunch of garbage. They killed him, plain and simple.
Waayyy to much paperwork and meetings with higher ups and other headaches involved lol.
You think his death is funny? I'm betting his mother doesn't. And posts like this are exactly one of the reasons that people view us as a vocation, and not a profession. You're in the public eye. Anyone can come to this board and read our posts, and you're making a joke about the death of a Down's patient at the hands of the police.
And you're making us all look bad. Act like a mature, professional adult, because right now, I'm pretty ashamed to admit that you have anything to do with my profession.
They restrained his hands behind his back in a face down position. In an obese person, we know this has a huge risk of causing death. That's why they teach not to do it. People die because of it.
The deputies then handcuffed Saylor, using three sets to accommodate his girth, while he was face down on the floor, according to the autopsy report. He became unresponsive and the deputies rolled him over. They couldn't find a pulse, so they removed the handcuffs and started chest compressions.
Saylor started breathing on his own, and still had a pulse when emergency medical workers arrived, the report says. But his heart stopped again as they tried to apply a breathing apparatus and a breathing tube, which they had difficulty inserting, according to the report. Saylor was pronounced dead at Frederick Memorial Hospital.
One of the options they had was not doing their jobs?Espo said he hadn't seen the report but that the deputies had acted improperly.
"One of the options they had was to simply tell the theater manager, 'We're just simply not going to deal with this.' They should have and could have just walked away," he said.
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/0...ice-department-interested-in-case--86720.html
Pre-existing conditions contributed to his death, it's certainly a tragedy but I don't see how the deputies are responsible.
Once he started having a medical emergency they started CPR and called EMS
One of the options they had was not doing their jobs?
The person who said that was the Family attorney of the deceased. What did you think he was going to say?One of the options they had was not doing their jobs?
The person who said that was the Family attorney of the deceased. What did you think he was going to say?
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/0...ice-department-interested-in-case--86720.html
Pre-existing conditions contributed to his death, it's certainly a tragedy but I don't see how the deputies are responsible.
Once he started having a medical emergency they started CPR and called EMS
One of the options they had was not doing their jobs?
umm... yes you can. It's called the use of force continuum.
Your pretty incorrect on this statement, I would look at what the use of force continuum is and how it is supposed to be applied.
I am not saying the officers acted criminally or should be held liable in any way. I am not saying they should be punished or restricted at work or lose their jobs. I AM saying that there always seems to be fairly simple solutions or alternatives to the majority of these situations that would likely improve the outcome and it is a shame that when you have that many public agents responding to a scene no one could STOP, think for a minute, and come up with a better way to handle the situation.
When I do things in EMS or in the hospital system, it is not about doing anything to not be held liable and get sued, it is about doing the best for the person I am taking care of, there is a big difference.
There are many answers in our field that are not wrong, but there are usually only a few answers (or one) that result in the highest probability for an optimal outcome.
I don't like to do my job "not wrong". I like to do my job the best I can.
I'm frankly surprised they did not use a TASER. Contrary to popular belief they don't kill people, and usually work well when somebody does not comprehend a request to comply.
They probably didn't have one. They were off-duty, moonlighting as security guards. Which actually makes me wonder if they were even supposed to engage him physically.
Your pretty incorrect on this statement, I would look at what the use of force continuum is and how it is supposed to be applied.
I am not saying the officers acted criminally or should be held liable in any way. I am not saying they should be punished or restricted at work or lose their jobs. I AM saying that there always seems to be fairly simple solutions or alternatives to the majority of these situations that would likely improve the outcome and it is a shame that when you have that many public agents responding to a scene no one could STOP, think for a minute, and come up with a better way to handle the situation.
When I do things in EMS or in the hospital system, it is not about doing anything to not be held liable and get sued, it is about doing the best for the person I am taking care of, there is a big difference.
There are many answers in our field that are not wrong, but there are usually only a few answers (or one) that result in the highest probability for an optimal outcome.
I don't like to do my job "not wrong". I like to do my job the best I can.