Paramedics and EMT's
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NomadicMedic
I know a guy who knows a guy.
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Like what? Give us an example.
I mean, if the paramedic said, "Do NOT collar and a board this patient" but you were taught to collar and board everyone who sustained a traumatic injury, would this be something you consider detrimental?
Or, the medic says, "take that oxygen off that patient" but you learned that oxygen doesn't hurt an might help, is that detrimental?
I mean, if the paramedic said, "Do NOT collar and a board this patient" but you were taught to collar and board everyone who sustained a traumatic injury, would this be something you consider detrimental?
Or, the medic says, "take that oxygen off that patient" but you learned that oxygen doesn't hurt an might help, is that detrimental?
Anjel
Forum Angel
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Lol ok serious time....
I think it depends on what's going on. Your medic knows more than you. Plain and simple. So you may question what he does, why he does it, or where he is going with his line of questioning. But there is usually a method behind the madness. Before I took my medic class I seriously thought medics were retarded for things they asked and did. But now I find myself asking and doing the same thing. It's all part of getting a better idea of what's going on.
Now if it is something that you KNOW is wrong. Emphasis on know. Like... He asks you to drop the patient down the stairs. Then you might want to question what's going on.
The medic has the higher license. He is the one in charge and its his *** on the line for what happens to the patient. If you feel uncomfortable. Ask questions... AFTER the call. But not in an accusatory way either. Ask to be taught and Be willing to learn.
I think I would assume my medic knew something I didn't know.
I can't imagine a good medic asking you to cause harm to your patient. If by some chance they were asking you to, like removing o2 on a hypoxic patient or removing a c collar after a traumatic injury you could quietly , by their ear whisper it is against your scope of practice. Other than that, listen to your medic
I can't imagine a good medic asking you to cause harm to your patient. If by some chance they were asking you to, like removing o2 on a hypoxic patient or removing a c collar after a traumatic injury you could quietly , by their ear whisper it is against your scope of practice. Other than that, listen to your medic
I would voice my concerns to the Paramedic first off, if they persisted with no explanation as to why, then I guess it would depend on what exactly they were asking me to do, how obviously wrong it was and how badly the patient outcome might be because of it.
Ultimately if it was something that isnt likely to result in the death of the patient or broke a law or protocol that could cost me my job or license, I would probably do it, but I certainly dont accept the word of a Paramedic as the word of god any more than Id expect an MFR to blindly do whatever I tell them.
Ultimately if it was something that isnt likely to result in the death of the patient or broke a law or protocol that could cost me my job or license, I would probably do it, but I certainly dont accept the word of a Paramedic as the word of god any more than Id expect an MFR to blindly do whatever I tell them.
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I'm interested in specifics too.
I'm not saying paramedics are always right but it's really frustrating when your EMT starts questioning what you're asking them to do, especially on a sick patient. I have no problem and enjoy teaching and explaining later why I did something but during patient care is not the time for it.
"Removing a collar after a traumatic injury" isn't dangerous. It could be depending on what's going on but did you ever consider that medic is clearing the person's c-spine? I've noticed while teaching the current AEMT class that many think clearing c-spine is an" ALS skill" and that's not the case.
If its something that's obviously dangerous or something you think we're not seeing then by all means speak up but don't do it argumentatively.
I'm not saying paramedics are always right but it's really frustrating when your EMT starts questioning what you're asking them to do, especially on a sick patient. I have no problem and enjoy teaching and explaining later why I did something but during patient care is not the time for it.
"Removing a collar after a traumatic injury" isn't dangerous. It could be depending on what's going on but did you ever consider that medic is clearing the person's c-spine? I've noticed while teaching the current AEMT class that many think clearing c-spine is an" ALS skill" and that's not the case.
If its something that's obviously dangerous or something you think we're not seeing then by all means speak up but don't do it argumentatively.
DrankTheKoolaid
Forum Deputy Chief
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Way to vague a question to really answer it straight out. But I'll address a few items here though.
First the gap between MFR - > EMT to EMT - > MICP should never be in the same conversation together ever when talking comparisons. There is no correlation
Second as paramedics we absolutely do not know everything and a medic that says he does is the worst and most dangerous kind as he doesn't know what he doesn't know.
Third. And a more direct answer to your vague question it really depends on what the order he is giving you. Note my word ORDER, as a member of a 2 man team I always ask my partners to do something if I need it done and they have not yet done it, insanely rare as i have been blessed with great partners my entire career with the exception of the fluke temp temp partner that we just don't have a good working relationship established yet and even then it's just am learning experience for each of us.
Now let's get back to the word ORDER, you as the EMT take orders from the Paramedic in charge of the patient in the same way a nurse takes orders from a doctor. And like a good RN should they will question a order they are unfamiliar with or feel is dangerous. BUT they will not do it on front of a patient EVER. In medicine that is the most unprofessional thing you could possibly do. And through the patients eyes imagine what that would look like and the faith you would have in that crew. And the fear for your own life you would have.
Now if you do refuse an ORDER in front of the patient,their family,and other responders expect to be asked off the scene and to wait in the drivers seat until you are asked to drive to the hospital. After the patient hand off a very long conversation is going to ensue. During that conversation you can expect an explanation of why you were given an ORDER and why that ORDER was given.
Remember not all medics are the same. And there approach my be to just have you simply drive the remainder of that shift and not allow you anywhere near a scene for the remainder of your tour and then likely will never schedule with you again especially if you were simply wrong and made him, you and your company look like idiots.
Don't be that guy. EMS is a small family and word travels quickly even way beyond county and state borders
First the gap between MFR - > EMT to EMT - > MICP should never be in the same conversation together ever when talking comparisons. There is no correlation
Second as paramedics we absolutely do not know everything and a medic that says he does is the worst and most dangerous kind as he doesn't know what he doesn't know.
Third. And a more direct answer to your vague question it really depends on what the order he is giving you. Note my word ORDER, as a member of a 2 man team I always ask my partners to do something if I need it done and they have not yet done it, insanely rare as i have been blessed with great partners my entire career with the exception of the fluke temp temp partner that we just don't have a good working relationship established yet and even then it's just am learning experience for each of us.
Now let's get back to the word ORDER, you as the EMT take orders from the Paramedic in charge of the patient in the same way a nurse takes orders from a doctor. And like a good RN should they will question a order they are unfamiliar with or feel is dangerous. BUT they will not do it on front of a patient EVER. In medicine that is the most unprofessional thing you could possibly do. And through the patients eyes imagine what that would look like and the faith you would have in that crew. And the fear for your own life you would have.
Now if you do refuse an ORDER in front of the patient,their family,and other responders expect to be asked off the scene and to wait in the drivers seat until you are asked to drive to the hospital. After the patient hand off a very long conversation is going to ensue. During that conversation you can expect an explanation of why you were given an ORDER and why that ORDER was given.
Remember not all medics are the same. And there approach my be to just have you simply drive the remainder of that shift and not allow you anywhere near a scene for the remainder of your tour and then likely will never schedule with you again especially if you were simply wrong and made him, you and your company look like idiots.
Don't be that guy. EMS is a small family and word travels quickly even way beyond county and state borders
I have no problem with removing a c collar if the c spine is being cleared, it is causing a major problem etc. I was using it as an example as of to say they just said remove it just to remove it.
I have even chosen to remove a c collar after patient said it was bothering his other injury. I asked if he had any neck pain, I palpated, asked if he felt pain, asked him to turn his head either way asking if he felt pain. Up down etc. Then documented that patient asked it to be removed and had full range of motion without pain etc.