Paramedic or LPN???

joshrunkle35

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I love a good success story.

Why anyone would bother with an LPN is beyond me. It’s a step, not a destination...An unnecessary step if you ask me, but to each their own.
Someone once told me that no one should be able to be an EMT or LPN longer than 5 years. As brutally harsh as that is, I don’t disagree with it.
 

akflightmedic

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There is strategy in being an EMT....just for a stroll down memory lane, early in my career I was partnered with an older guy close to retirement who was a damn good EMT, he knew so much and was able to help guide me, despite being only an EMT. Then I learned he was a Paramedic for nearly 20+ years, however he let it intentionally lapse and he had kept his EMT current. This was his retirement plan from the county. He had already maxed out in pay, he was old and tired of being in charge, and with his seniority he could go to any of the 15 stations he wanted, and pretty much do darn near anything he wanted. LOL

So basically, his final 3 years with the County, he just cruised...into retirement.
 

joshrunkle35

Forum Asst. Chief
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There is strategy in being an EMT....just for a stroll down memory lane, early in my career I was partnered with an older guy close to retirement who was a damn good EMT, he knew so much and was able to help guide me, despite being only an EMT. Then I learned he was a Paramedic for nearly 20+ years, however he let it intentionally lapse and he had kept his EMT current. This was his retirement plan from the county. He had already maxed out in pay, he was old and tired of being in charge, and with his seniority he could go to any of the 15 stations he wanted, and pretty much do darn near anything he wanted. LOL

So basically, his final 3 years with the County, he just cruised...into retirement.
I legit work with 3 guys who have done that exact same thing.
 

MackTheKnife

BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN
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Someone once told me that no one should be able to be an EMT or LPN longer than 5 years. As brutally harsh as that is, I don’t disagree with it.
Not true, IMAO (In My Arrogant Opinion). Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance! LOL! Seriously, anyone going LPN needs to have their head examined. They are being weeded out. As an RN, I've seen Super Nurses that are LPNs being shown the door. They can't do admission assessments, plans-of-care, push IV meds (yet they can hang drips!). But an LPN can bridge to RN, as can a medic. And then in the magic world of RN Narnia, you can change jobs/disciplines every couple of years with no harm, no foul.
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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Someone once told me that no one should be able to be an EMT or LPN longer than 5 years. As brutally harsh as that is, I don’t disagree with it.
Why? I did medic school after 15 years as an EMT.... my current job (which I started a few years after, and doesn't involve an ambulance) doesn't require me to be a paramedic, doesn't allow me to practice as a paramedic, and being a paramedic doesn't give me any more $$$$, but requires me to still have my EMT, as its a requirement of the job. So what benefit does a paramedic certification bring to me?

So tell me again why no one should be an EMT for longer than 5 year? Or more accurately, if someone is doing a good job as an EMT (or LPN for that matter), and has no inclination to obtain the additional education needed for the increase in pay, why should that be held against them?
 

Woodtownemt

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Why? I did medic school after 15 years as an EMT.... my current job (which I started a few years after, and doesn't involve an ambulance) doesn't require me to be a paramedic, doesn't allow me to practice as a paramedic, and being a paramedic doesn't give me any more $$$$, but requires me to still have my EMT, as its a requirement of the job. So what benefit does a paramedic certification bring to me?

So tell me again why no one should be an EMT for longer than 5 year? Or more accurately, if someone is doing a good job as an EMT (or LPN for that matter), and has no inclination to obtain the additional education needed for the increase in pay, why should that be held against them?

+1. I totally agree. Sometimes people get caught up in going to the next step because the social perception of having to go from point A to point B is expected.

When I was in the field I always felt that I was expected to get my P-card. The reaction from others once they found out I was still an EMT after more than 4 years (at the time) always was, "oh cool you're in ...." a) medic school or b) nursing school.

In the end I had ask myself the hard questions and realized that EMS wasn't where I honestly saw myself. Even though sometimes i thought it was. Once you're honest with yourself and could care less what other people think your life should be according to THEIR life's outlook it's a no brainer.

So now when I see those old school EMT still rolling in through ER doors I appreciate their decision a lot more.
 

MackTheKnife

BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN
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Why? I did medic school after 15 years as an EMT.... my current job (which I started a few years after, and doesn't involve an ambulance) doesn't require me to be a paramedic, doesn't allow me to practice as a paramedic, and being a paramedic doesn't give me any more $$$$, but requires me to still have my EMT, as its a requirement of the job. So what benefit does a paramedic certification bring to me?

So tell me again why no one should be an EMT for longer than 5 year? Or more accurately, if someone is doing a good job as an EMT (or LPN for that matter), and has no inclination to obtain the additional education needed for the increase in pay, why should that be held against them?
So what benefit does a paramedic certification bring to me? In your specific case, no benefit. In the general sense, it provides for, in the field or ED, operating at an advanced level. But, I agree, no one HAS to move up to medic. In a relative analogy, a large portion of our CNAs have no desire to go to nursing school. They are happy where they are. And we're talking multiple years, some decades.
if someone is doing a good job as an EMT (or LPN for that matter), and has no inclination to obtain the additional education needed for the increase in pay, why should that be held against them? Agree again with you. Not moving up should NOT be held against anyone. However, in the case of the LPN, specifically here in Florida, in my opinion you NEED to get your RN. At my hospital where I receive my health care, they have started getting rid of nearly all of the LPNs. It used to be I'd go see my Primary Care provider and an LPN would take my vitals and place me in the exam room. Now it's a Medical Assistant. In the Specialty Clinics, an LPN used to do intakes. Now it's an RN. At my former place of employment, I walked in one day and the LPNs were GONE. All of them. LPNs couldn't do everything an RN could and RNs had to not only take care of their assigned patients, but also the take care of certain aspects of patient care for the LPN. And we didn't get extra pay for the extra work. The hospital (part of the biggest chain worldwide) just plain got rid of them.
 

joshrunkle35

Forum Asst. Chief
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+1. I totally agree. Sometimes people get caught up in going to the next step because the social perception of having to go from point A to point B is expected.

When I was in the field I always felt that I was expected to get my P-card. The reaction from others once they found out I was still an EMT after more than 4 years (at the time) always was, "oh cool you're in ...." a) medic school or b) nursing school.

In the end I had ask myself the hard questions and realized that EMS wasn't where I honestly saw myself. Even though sometimes i thought it was. Once you're honest with yourself and could care less what other people think your life should be according to THEIR life's outlook it's a no brainer.

So now when I see those old school EMT still rolling in through ER doors I appreciate their decision a lot more.
I don’t view it as a social expectation but rather as an ethical one. If you have people who rely on you for their care, you should continue to improve yourself and develop clinical expertise. This means continuing on to board certifications or areas of subspecialty within your field. There aren’t really any areas of clinical expertise at the EMT or LPN levels, so remaining at such a level for an extended period demonstrates stagnation of clinical development and should be an automatic ticket out of practice.

ETA: WEMT and EMT-T are subspecialties at the EMT level, but EMS isn’t the primary field and patient care isn’t typically the primary job.
 

MackTheKnife

BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN
491
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If EMS would get their sh*t together, this disjointed mess would slowly go away. The whole public, private, mixed public/private, etc. responders. Requiring a degree or not, NREMT gets you a license or every state like NCLEX-RN does, and ... whether or not to have just medics and no EMTs. NOTE: I'm not advocating the latter. Just a discussion point.
FB_IMG_1563536649805.jpg
 

Remi

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I don’t view it as a social expectation but rather as an ethical one. If you have people who rely on you for their care, you should continue to improve yourself and develop clinical expertise. This means continuing on to board certifications or areas of subspecialty within your field. There aren’t really any areas of clinical expertise at the EMT or LPN levels, so remaining at such a level for an extended period demonstrates stagnation of clinical development and should be an automatic ticket out of practice.

ETA: WEMT and EMT-T are subspecialties at the EMT level, but EMS isn’t the primary field and patient care isn’t typically the primary job.
It is unethical to remain an EMT or LPN for more than a few years because those fields don't provide subspecialty training or board certifications?

I don't even know how to respond to that. That is easily the dumbest thing I've read on the internet lately, which is saying quite a bit.
 

Summit

Critical Crazy
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I don’t view it as a social expectation but rather as an ethical one. If you have people who rely on you for their care, you should continue to improve yourself and develop clinical expertise. This means continuing on to board certifications or areas of subspecialty within your field. There aren’t really any areas of clinical expertise at the EMT or LPN levels, so remaining at such a level for an extended period demonstrates stagnation of clinical development and should be an automatic ticket out of practice.

ETA: WEMT and EMT-T are subspecialties at the EMT level, but EMS isn’t the primary field and patient care isn’t typically the primary job.
Some of the best people, professionally and personally, I've met in my entire life are CNAs who have remained at that level for 15 years because they were made for it. I dare you to call them unethical to their face.
 

DrParasite

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The more I think about it, the more I think my response might have been too black and white. Had circumstances in my past been differently, I likely would have ended up becoming a medic in Jersey City (and probably crossed into Newark or MONOC on my days off like many others) in 2005 with a major drinking problem, and been completely miserable with life.... Looking back, I'm very glad that didn't happen.

Let me modify the statement from @joshrunkle35 and let me know if it sounds better:

If EMS is to be your full time career, than no one should be able to be an EMT for longer than 6 years; you need to go to paramedic school if you want to be seen as a knowledgeable and competent EMS provider. The same goes for LPN; if you are still an LPN after 5 years, which doesn't permit you do do all the things an RN can do, than there is a problem, and it's time for your to rethink your career.

As brutally harsh as that is, I don’t disagree with it.
Especially now that I live in an All ALS system, where BLS ambulances are unheard of (and the overall EMS care isn't that much better TBH, esp since the medics spend soooo much time dealing with BLS patients), if you want to be anything more than on the ambulance, you need to have a paramedic certification. It's just the nature of the system, not that the paramedic cert makes you any more qualified in many cases.

With all the part time EMS providers, or people who have an EMT cert yet EMS isn't their primary focus (every firefighter in the US, I'm looking at you, or cops who have an EMT cert yet they have never actually been on an ambulance), or volunteer providers (which is an entirely different rabbit-hole that I don't want to go down) it's both unreasonable and absurd to say that they should have to go to paramedic school, when they have no desire to, and would only make for a poor providers, especially if they stopped learning new things once they got their P card.

But if this is going to be your long term career, that you are going to spend 10+ years doing, and you want to be an EMS professional, than you should take the plunge and demonstrate that you can practice at the highest level of prehospital care.
 
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