Paged out as an overdose

VentMedic

Forum Chief
5,923
1
0
vent i did provide the amount taken, three pills, i may not be a medic, or an intermidiate, but i think the ed can calculate the dosage of three otc acemetaphine

Okay. Just get used to looking at the dosages of meds especially on med reports on the routine calls. That will help as you continue your education. You won't be stessing out in the pharmacology section of paragod school if you start now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Buzz

Forum Captain
295
16
0
I had a B.S. overdose call one night. He called 911 saying he'd taken over 10 doses of Benadryl because he was unable to sleep. Upon arrival, he is up and walking around talking to us. Turns out he'd meant over the course of a few weeks, with the last time he'd taken it 36 hours prior to calling. Then he signed off.
 

Sapphyre

Forum Asst. Chief
914
6
0
but i think the ed can calculate the dosage of three otc acemetaphine

Hey, garett, you did know that OTC acetametaphine comes in 2 doses, right? That is part of the reason why you need to look at, and document dosing.
 

VentMedic

Forum Chief
5,923
1
0
I am going to hijack this thread slightly since OD is being discussed.

Over the past two years Asthma meds in the U.S. have changed dramatically and unfortunately we are seeing more deaths from asthma and from the medications. The patients are sometimes having their asthma managed out of a General Physician's sample closet at random with very little instruction about technique, how much, when and why. It is no longer enough to just blow off an MDI as "took his/her inhaler". Which inhaler and how much? Dose per inhalation? How many different inhalers laying around? OTC or prescription? Initial HR and BP? Heart sounds, palpation for perfusing pulse or actual electrical activity? During an Albuterol tx?

Here's a little presentation on the many different inhalers out there.

http://www.asthmanow.net/EPR%203%20Asthma%20Training%20Series-Asthma%20Medications.ppt
 

rescuepoppy

Forum Lieutenant
236
2
18
While this is not an emergency this patient was having a crisis. Sometimes when people see the take two at one time or no more than a certain amount over a set time period they can think that if they exceed that dosage they will have some reaction. This is probably what was going through his head. Like I said this was not an emergent situation to us but to him he needed the reassurance that he was not going to die from the extra tablet. What we consider to be b.s. can be at least temporarily an emergency to the person it is happening to. Yes in a career in this service you will run b.s. calls Just rember you are not the one with the emergency.
 

Jon

Administrator
Community Leader
8,009
58
48
3 pills of what dosage?

325mgx3=975mg
500mgx3=1500mg

Normal dose is 1-2 pills - so if 3 pills of the "regular" dose was taken, it is the SAME as the normal max dose of Extra Strength

So... is there a low-level OD, or NOT?

Also - WHY did the patient take the OD? Intentional? Accidental?

What is the underlying cause? Are they depressed? Do they verbalize suicidal idealization?

Did he take an extra pill because he's confused? Is he CAOx4? Did you do a stroke assessment? Check a blood glucose level?

Garett - you aren't "just a BLS provider" you are an EMS Provider... and should be a patient advocate. Rather than blow the patient off as B.S., treat and document the underlying issues to the best of your ability, and pass that same info along to the ED staff.
 

VentMedic

Forum Chief
5,923
1
0
LOL Ive taken up to 8 Extra strength tylenol in one day for a bad migraine before and had no visible side effects.

What type of visible side effects are you expecting?

If you continue to take that amount of Tylenol on a fairly occasional or frequent basis, you might consider getting liver function tests done.
 

trevor1189

Forum Captain
376
0
0
LOL Ive taken up to 8 Extra strength tylenol in one day for a bad migraine before and had no visible side effects.

Yeah most of the max doses on OTC meds seem like they really don't mean anything. I once found myself drinking dayquil out of the bottle when I had to work a third shift to get rid of the symptoms. Would I do everyday just because there were no adverse rxns that night, no way! Long term it would definitely cause damage, no doubt in my mind.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

vquintessence

Forum Captain
303
0
0
Yeah most of the max doses on OTC meds seem like they really don't mean anything. I once found myself drinking dayquil out of the bottle when I had to work a third shift to get rid of the symptoms. Would I do everyday just because there were no adverse rxns that night, no way! Long term it would definitely cause damage, no doubt in my mind.

So were you "robo tripping" while on duty?!!?!!? :p Lots of kids around here were pounding DXM (found in dayquil, cough syrup, etc) to get high before legislation required photo ID, 18+ Y/O and limited purchases.
 

exodus

Forum Deputy Chief
2,895
242
63
I'm guessing you messed up saying they took 2000 mg because i'm trying to figure out how 2000mg out of 3 pills works?!

And YOU ARE A STUDENT. DO NOT even start to call calls BS. For all you know the patient is unable to remember taking other medications. Other than immediate S/S, do not take the patients information as FACT! Find out why he took them? Did he have a really bad head ache? What is the head ache from? Why was it so bad to him that he went "outside normal dose" to fix it. Did he take it on accident, did he want to subtely try to get help for a pysch problem?

And there are pretty much NO paragods on this forum, the person you called one, is most definetly not, if anything they are very much an amazing paramedic! The medics in this thread are actually compeltely for giving EVERYONE a full ALS treatment, even your "BS" patients. By you calling this patient BS, you are on a one way road to becoming a paragod, a paragod is someone who feels they are above the patient and other medical providers, and looks down upon them. So by you calling this patient BS even though you don't know if there's underlying problems.

And even if it was a BS call, it's a perfect time for you to practice your ASSESSMENT SKILLS, AND VITAL SKILLS. This was apparently a non-emergent call, so why not spend more time on scene, and have you fully do the assessment by yoursef? If you only do assessments on SICK patients, you will never know how an assessment will look on a NOT SICK patient....


Thank you.
 

MRE

Forum Captain
312
10
18
What type of visible side effects are you expecting?

You would start to turn the color of the pills of course. Works with carrots.

I'm guessing you messed up saying they took 2000 mg because i'm trying to figure out how 2000mg out of 3 pills works?!

That was the new 666.66mg pill that Tylenol was proposing. I guess they decided against it as some people are put off by the number and cutting the ends off the pills to get down to 500mg.


Legal Note: The content of this post is in no way meant to diagnose or treat any injury or illness. Its information has no basis in fact and due to it's content should not be taken seriously by anyone.
 

Lunah

Forum Crew Member
62
0
6
Yeah most of the max doses on OTC meds seem like they really don't mean anything.

Oh, but they certainly do. I do NOT like Tylenol. It is a nasty, nasty drug. I've run teens who took a bunch of Tylenol in a fit of depression, then decided not to tell anyone ... a day or so later, their livers are hosed. One pt. took 65 (yes, 65) extra-strength -- so 32,500 mg. Even though she was outside the window of time, she still got Mucomyst in the ED (this was before IV Acetadote was available). I've often wondered how she fared. Very sad.
 

VentMedic

Forum Chief
5,923
1
0
You would start to turn the color of the pills of course. Works with carrots.

By the time you turn that same orange color with the pills as you do with carrots, you're liver is probably very damaged.

Oh, but they certainly do. I do NOT like Tylenol. It is a nasty, nasty drug. I've run teens who took a bunch of Tylenol in a fit of depression, then decided not to tell anyone ... a day or so later, their livers are hosed. One pt. took 65 (yes, 65) extra-strength -- so 32,500 mg. Even though she was outside the window of time, she still got Mucomyst in the ED (this was before IV Acetadote was available). I've often wondered how she fared. Very sad.

I had referred to this in an earlier post. Some people do take a lot of tylenol out of a moment of anger or depression and then regret it. They may then realize they could have done some damage but don't want to admit to a suicide attempt when they call 911 or go to the ED which will get them a 72 hour psych hold. Thus, they say they took just a couple more than the recommended dose.
 

MRE

Forum Captain
312
10
18
By the time you turn that same orange color with the pills as you do with carrots, you're liver is probably very damaged.

But you could probably see in the dark.

Vent has a really good point about a patient not telling the "whole" truth. We all should remember that what comes out of a patient's/family member's/bystander's mouth should always be taken with a grain of salt.
 

VentMedic

Forum Chief
5,923
1
0
Vent has a really good point about a patient not telling the "whole" truth. We all should remember that what comes out of a patient's/family member's/bystander's mouth should always be taken with a grain of salt.

While what they say should be considered, your own assessment and judgment should also play a large role. However, if you enter with an "attitude" about the call just by the way it was dispatched, you may miss some very important factors in your assessment of the scene and the patient.

Another example of this would be spouse or child abuse. Often the child or spouse will deny injuries that are clearly visible. Or, they may call for some other reason in hopes of being removed from a very bad situation and taken to safety without raising suspicion of their "loved" one.
 

lightsandsirens5

Forum Deputy Chief
3,970
19
38
How 'bout this:

Monday night we get paged to the lobby of a local motel for a male pt w/ possible allergic reaction. On scene find pt vomiting into a trash can. He is the color of plumbers putty, (If you haven’t seen it, it is a horrible pale beige/grey color) sweaty like you would not believe and said he had never been so tires in his life. Anyhow, we do I/A and find he is allergic to almonds. Well, he ate some walnuts or something and thought he felt some symptoms like his reaction to almonds coming on "so I took 5 or 6 Benadryl about, oh a half hour, forty-five minutes ago and that seemed to help some, Then I started getting sick like this, oh and by the way, I'm really tired."

Long story short, hospital thinks he just had simple food poisoning and no reaction to walnuts. (How about a slight OD on Benadryl? Gosh, one knocks me out!!!!:p)
 

CAOX3

Forum Deputy Chief
1,366
4
0
And YOU ARE A STUDENT. DO NOT even start to call calls BS. For all you know the patient is unable to remember taking other medications. Other than immediate S/S, do not take the patients information as FACT! Find out why he took them? Did he have a really bad head ache? What is the head ache from? Why was it so bad to him that he went "outside normal dose" to fix it. Did he take it on accident, did he want to subtely try to get help for a pysch problem?
.

Yeah....cause only sick people call 911. Where do you work :rolleyes:

So you want to interrogate him? He took three 500mg tylenols, not even half the daily recommended dose.

Put the helicopter on standby.

Subtle help for a psych problem...........WTF.

Im all for helping sick people, some are not sick.
 
Top