Off-duty Boston EMT saves life

Play nice everyone...

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If you look it up on Wikipedia, there's some lengthy linguistics crap about the non-rhotic R.

I grew up on the South Coast, so I have a slightly different accent that generally doesn't come out, unless I'm angry or talking casually. My roommate last year wouldn't stop commenting on pronunciations like "New Beffud" or "draaa" for "drawer".

Also, this thread has officially derailed.
 
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Flight-LP said:
An off duty employee who disregards his own personal safety and enters a potentially unsafe scene, ESPECIALLY a shooting, is no hero in my book. Idiot, in my mind, would be more descriptive.

Flame if you wish, but the unfortunate reality is that bad things happen to good people (and bad for that matter). But regardless of what happens, I am a firm believer in going home to my family after shift. Someone elses emergency will NEVER compromise my safety if within my control. Thought they taught that in EMT class..........................
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There is a point where theory ends and fact begins. When people act over and above their duties, they are not thinking about being a hero. They are thinking that they see a fellow human being in dire trouble and they act. Its as simple as that. There is NO SUCH THING AS A SAFE SCENE. This is a notion that MUST be taught to new EMS providers. You may believe a scene is safe and at the time you enter it, it may well be. But they change in the blink of an eye. By its very nature, the job we do is extraordinarily dangerous. There are some statistics that say that there are more EMS providers killed in the line of duty each year that police officers.

Everyone wants to go home in at the end of their tour. Its silly to imply that someone doesnt. I would not want a partner who would not give his last full measure to help someone nor would I ever hire a person that I didnt believe would. Yes our safety comes first, but again, there is more to it than that. You have to ask yourself what really needs to happen here. Do I need to risk injury or death to help someone else. In my field of study and practice of disaster and terror medicine, there is no safe scene. There are only scenes that are safer than some others. Its like safe sex vs safER sex. This EMT did what he believed was his moral obligation to a fellow human being. There can be no fault found in that. Did he set out to be a hero? No. Is he? Yes.

How copy?
 
Idiot?

Well... what an interesting topic. Personally I think calling the "hero" an idiot was uncalled for. I think we all have a tough job to do and that was an exceptionally tough decision to make that I'd say many in EMS have never had to make themselves. How bout we leave the post action critique (bashing) to the media since they are the professionals in that arena. We on the other hand should be focused on giving the fellow EMS worker the pat on the back he deserves for saving a life.

I can't speak for the rest of you, but I took more than a little offence at the idiot remark because I am a former Air Force Pararescueman and if you think what he did makes him an idiot then you'd probably say I need to be committed for some of the stunts I and my fellow special ops medics have been called on to do recently. It's a calculated risk, and we know that every time we respond to a call. But that's why the pararescue motto ends with the words, "...these things we do, that OTHERS may live." We know the cost. We accept the risk. Just because you wouldn't do it doesn't make what he did wrong, and it doesn't mean he is an idiot for accepting the risk.
 
OoohRah and Bravo Zulu!
 
sosborne said:
Well... what an interesting topic. Personally I think calling the "hero" an idiot was uncalled for. I think we all have a tough job to do and that was an exceptionally tough decision to make that I'd say many in EMS have never had to make themselves. How bout we leave the post action critique (bashing) to the media since they are the professionals in that arena. We on the other hand should be focused on giving the fellow EMS worker the pat on the back he deserves for saving a life.

I can't speak for the rest of you, but I took more than a little offence at the idiot remark because I am a former Air Force Pararescueman and if you think what he did makes him an idiot then you'd probably say I need to be committed for some of the stunts I and my fellow special ops medics have been called on to do recently. It's a calculated risk, and we know that every time we respond to a call. But that's why the pararescue motto ends with the words, "...these things we do, that OTHERS may live." We know the cost. We accept the risk. Just because you wouldn't do it doesn't make what he did wrong, and it doesn't mean he is an idiot for accepting the risk.
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Actually quite the contrary. You are comparing apples to oranges. While I do agree that many PJ's do need to update their CT scan, offense should not be taken. You are the pride of the USAF. Having the honor of serving with the 352nd out of (at the time) RAF Alconbury, my hat is off to you.

BUT........................

That in no way justifies an off duty EMT from entering a KNOWN violent and unsecured scene without law enforcement. The difference being that you as a PJ have received the very best in tactical and survival training. Joe Schmoe Boston EMT hasn't. He doesn't have the team to back him. He is not armed. He does not have immediate fire support. He has a pair of gloves, some 4x4's, and a prayer that the shooter doesn't return. Impulsitivity is a root cause in many combative deaths. When you allow impulse to clout your judgement, you let your guard down. At that point in time, you have already lost the battle. Maybe the perception of what I wrote is considered harsh, but there is absolutely no justification to accept the immediate risk of violence in civilian EMS. To do so, in my book, is suicidal and completely idiotic. Even in todays military, over half of the current conflicts have no bearing on the safety and security of our country. They are about oil, money, and politics, plain and simple. But that discussion is for another day................

Another train of thought...................

If you are off duty and stop to render aid, are you covered under your personal life insurance policy or the company's? Before you answer you may want to double check. You might be surprised to find out that your family will receive nothing due to your poor judgement. At least Uncle Sam will respect you and take care of your family............................................
 
What is ironic, if he had been shot or killed, what we would had said... that he should had known better.. I call him lucky! I agree, with flight LP, that is NOT our primary job.. sorry, the definition of hero is too broad of a term, and definitely is used many times to make the grieving feel better.


R/r 911
 
Flight-LP said:
That in no way justifies an off duty EMT from entering a KNOWN violent and unsecured scene without law enforcement. The difference being that you as a PJ have received the very best in tactical and survival training. Joe Schmoe Boston EMT hasn't. He doesn't have the team to back him. He is not armed. He does not have immediate fire support. He has a pair of gloves, some 4x4's, and a prayer that the shooter doesn't return.
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I must say I agree with you. And I didn't mean to imply that I endorse his actions at all because I don't. Even us PJ's sometimes wonder what we did to put ourselves in the precarious positions we get in (even with the support you mentioned it can get a little dicey). My problem is just us being so harsh on the guy. Did he make an impulsive decision that could have gotten him killed; absolutely! I'd just rather leave the disciplinary action, and after action training to his superiors (and his mom; who I'm sure wanted to kick his A$$ when she heard about it). I sure as heck wouldn't tell my mom what all I've done. I'd sooner spend this winter in Afganistan than fight her. :)
 
It's noble what this man did, but like Flight-LP says, it was indeed foolish. You just can't take a risk like that going into a scene of an assault without PD.

Just remember that the first priority is yourself. Because the patient can't cure themselves if you get hurt.
 
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