OFF DUTY+ a real emergency.

[Webster]

I work at in the Health/Safety Dept. at a Boy Scout camp in a very rural area and it's often 1/2 hr before an ambulance arrives. However, I don't think the fact that it's out of the way changes the way I can treat the patient. The response times for my place of residence, on the contrary, are really fast. If I did decide to stop, it would be just out of assistance to other people as a person, not as a responder. I also shut my radio off when I'm not on duty, because when I'm off duty, I'm off duty. Just my two cents.

 

[StarOfLife]

Far as ..."not afraid to use them".. scares me. It is this type of attitude that we have discussed upon why it is shameless to allow such. What real authority do you have and truthfully what difference are your really going to make by arriving 1 minute earlier? I can argue that you probably place more people (including yourself) into more danger than helping.

R/r 911

My squad strongly suggests we use them. We live in a rural community with state roads that have a decent amount of through traffic. It can easily take me 15 minutes to get to a call across town.

I'm not defending the OP's setup - his state laws and town's by-laws are something with which I am unfamiliar. However, I do know that I am also expected to carry O2, NRB, BVM, defib, a jump kit with airway adjuncts, and trauma dressings, etc. Not only am I able to stop and care for someone I find in my town, but I should radio dispatch for additional resources.

 

[StarOfLife]

Three words.......

Oh My God........ What are you thinking??? I should come over there and slap the crap out of you until your blues turn blue.

This is a perfect example of why EMS SHOULD NEVER OF BEEN VOLUNTEER!!!!! Your off-duty, YOUR OFF DUTY!! That's it plain and simple. Drop the save all to save all attitude.

Another thread was asking what's wrong with EMS??? THIS IS WHAT'S WRONG. People buy old ambulances so they can drive around and play giant idiot whacker EMT.

Please do not move to Florida or in my area.... You will never touch me or my family.

You are ignorant, IMO. This demonstrates that there are some in EMS who would rather give no care than give volunteer care (towns with 200 calls per year should be staffed full-time?). Why shouldn't someone (perceived eccentricities aside) give care at his/her level of training if it could save a life - even "off duty"?

If a complete stranger stopped to care for a family member of mine when there was no higher level of care on scene, I would be eternally grateful - EMT or not. At least an EMT has a level of training that is more likely to save a life. Think about it.

 

[StarOfLife]

The answer is the public has to be educated that EMS is an essential service! Does your county/community have a County Health Department, a nursing home, possibly a hospital within itself, and Sheriff's Department?
Then it can afford a EMS. Again, it is all in the priorities it self for itself.
R/r 911

In our town, volunteer EMTs respond to every call - no "crisis". It is just that there are few calls and no reason to man the station. We have nine members that have all levels of skill. We have a paramedic who responds to a majority of calls, we have a couple of intermediates who do as well, one who is an RN and the other an NP. And most of the basics have a number of years in EMS - we have a husband and wife that have 50 years experience between them.

We also contract with a private ALS service that responds to all calls for transport. I see nothing wrong with our system and it mirrors that of many volunteer towns.

JMHO.

 

[Meursault]

A lot of very touchy people in this thread. EMTLife finally gets some drama.

We also contract with a private ALS service that responds to all calls for transport.

Out of curiosity, why not make the ALS service your 911 provider?

 

[SwissEMT]

I long for the day when whacker assclowns get out of EMS and the rest of us can be regarded as Medical Professionals.

 

[certguy]

Tger ,

Murphy's an optimist with a sense of humor . When you least expect it , stuff happens . When it does , you deal with it as best you can within your scope of practice , keeping your safety the first concern . You can't help others if you go down too . I've had medical emergencies on my bus , at church , and on the road . We may not have a legal responsibility to help , but as EMS personnel we have a moral responsibility to do what we can to save lives , on or off - duty .


For me , that got put to the test last week . While driving my bus , I came across a rolled over vehicle , on fire , with a trapped victim . Our company policy is that we call 911 only , not render aid . The accident had just happened and the nearest help was 12 - 15 min. out . I made the decision to do what I could ( I won't let someone burn to death for any company policy ) I succeeded in putting out the fire ( despite 3 rekindles ) but I couldn't help the driver . He was pinned in , unrestrained and hanging upside down on an obvious broken neck agonal respirations and no radial pulse . The irony was that he'd been ticketed before the accident for not wearing his seat belt . I could've gotten disciplinary action for breaking policy but didn't . Sometimes you have to just do what's right .

 

[Ridryder911]

You are ignorant, IMO. This demonstrates that there are some in EMS who would rather give no care than give volunteer care (towns with 200 calls per year should be staffed full-time?). Why shouldn't someone (perceived eccentricities aside) give care at his/her level of training if it could save a life - even "off duty"?

If a complete stranger stopped to care for a family member of mine when there was no higher level of care on scene, I would be eternally grateful - EMT or not. At least an EMT has a level of training that is more likely to save a life. Think about it.

Because this is a profession. Do you really understand about EMS Systems management, reimbursement monies, liability of poor response times, etc?

Towns with 200 people if not close proximity will be considered Frontier. This is a whole different event and not even confused at such. Doubtfully, with 200 people they would even consider an EMS or have one run a year (again location).

In our town, volunteer EMTs respond to every call - no "crisis". It is just that there are few calls and no reason to man the station. We have nine members that have all levels of skill. We have a paramedic who responds to a majority of calls, we have a couple of intermediates who do as well, one who is an RN and the other an NP. And most of the basics have a number of years in EMS - we have a husband and wife that have 50 years experience between them.

We also contract with a private ALS service that responds to all calls for transport. I see nothing wrong with our system and it mirrors that of many volunteer towns.

JMHO.

With all those personal being medical, then I assume you are in close proximity of a metro area. In all actuality you have a medical first response (MFR) system and not an traditional EMS System (since private ALS responds to all calls for transport) which is NOT the same as most volunteer EMS agencies. In all actuality some States do not recognize as an EMS Service rather a Medical First Responder Systems that assists the EMS.

Be careful upon calling someone ignorant. Understanding the Systems portion of EMS and the different types within and then not clumping them all together is part of education that is needed by everyone involved in EMS.

There again will always be areas, that will have to depend upon volunteer EMS agencies. Those are very few in comparison to what is being delivered.

R/r 911

 

[Niftymedic911]

You are ignorant, IMO. This demonstrates that there are some in EMS who would rather give no care than give volunteer care (towns with 200 calls per year should be staffed full-time?). Why shouldn't someone (perceived eccentricities aside) give care at his/her level of training if it could save a life - even "off duty"?

If a complete stranger stopped to care for a family member of mine when there was no higher level of care on scene, I would be eternally grateful - EMT or not. At least an EMT has a level of training that is more likely to save a life. Think about it.

Please explain to me how much more of an advantage it would be to have an EMT-B over a lay person in any given situation?? All of the EMT cirriculum is COMMON SENSE!!! CPR is easy, can be easy to learn and self taught. You both offer the same thing. Transport and evaulation. The only difference is the fact that you have whackerism EMS with your LED's, air horns, and shiny Galls badges....

If your town was seroius about EMS and it's public service, yes it should have a paid service to attend to person's in need. This is the point people. How can you be considered professional if you go about your business throughout your day, finally get a call @ 3 am in the morning and show up in a pair of jeans and a T-shirt that is from Galls that says "EMT, you only live one life, We help you keep it"???

You sir are ingnorant to the fact is that EMS will never get out of it's dark ages if you consistantly think that volunteer services are acceptable.

I much rather have an agency that consistantly trains and is at the ready to handle an emergency call vs being at your home at 9 in the evening in the middle of hankey pankey, and you decide to respond. You cannot help but think and treat this call as hurry up let's get this over with so I can go home. Consistent professionals at the ready are there for a period of time, do their job and go home. It's not too much to ask for. You only think it is because of narrow mindedness.

Who cares about population maps??? They all show the same thing..... EMS should be a fully support and funded public saftey agency. 2 and 3 counties in a row not having BLS or ALS services to respond. Please. Take a pay cut, enjoy your life as you have it now, and maybe the rest of the community can also enjoy happier lives with a paid EMS service at the ready.

 

[el Murpharino]

Not all volunteer agencies consist of wackers who wear wife beaters, cutoff jeans, and Galls EMT shirts (although I do interact with those agencies on a regular basis). It's easy (and comical) to lump all vollies into that stereotype, but there are also alot of agencies that have professional members among them that take great pride in their work.

Just because you're not getting paid doesn't mean you're not a professional. Yes, there is more incentive to maintain a professional attitude at a paid agency, but if you have solid leadership at any level that maintains standards, then there shouldn't be any issue on professionalism.

 

[TgerFoxMark]

The shirts we wear when volenteering are Issued jackets for our squad. Im not saying that there are no Halfa$$ people wo are doing CPR with a Cigarette hanging off their lip out there... I have seen that in day to day life. IMO, I will stop if i see an incident that has no-one there, and do what i can until more people get there, and that is if im not in my volenteer area, I have a cell phone, I call for the local Athorities, do what i can till they get there. I am not a FF, but that doesnt mean i cannot use an simple Extinguisher to put a small fire out before it gets big! I have seen people drive right by Bad motorcycle wecks, where there is an OBVIOUS Injury, an no-one there! I'm one who will stop, I have a duty to protect life, and i had that BEFORE i got my EMT-B.
Life is Valuable! Protect it! Yours, Your Family, Your Friends, The Public.

Our Volly squad, Is staffed by people of all levels of training, from First Responders, To D.O.'s and M.D.'s.
To those EMT-P people who think that they are Medical Professionals... Ask a Doctor what he thinks of your skills and 2 years in school, REGARDLESS of how long you have been in the field! Your trained to provide PREHOSPITAL care. That means the Hospital is the End all.

and 2 final things (sorry for *****ing like this)
1, I didnt join to start Drama, rather to discuss the things that concern me.
and 2, DO YOU AS A PARAMEDIC, THINK YOU SHOULD WORK WITHOUT A MEDICAL DIRECTOR? Sounds like some have forgotten our roots, and think that they are gods.
I personally, as the thread founder hereby request that the thread be deleted to stop the drama and infighting. We all try to do what we can, This fighting is counter productive to learning.

 

[StarOfLife]

A lot of very touchy people in this thread. EMTLife finally gets some drama.



Out of curiosity, why not make the ALS service your 911 provider?

They don't do that. Besides, why when it would take them much longer to get on scene. They have four ambulances and they service 6 towns. They are very busy.

 

[StarOfLife]

Because this is a profession. Do you really understand about EMS Systems management, reimbursement monies, liability of poor response times, etc?

Towns with 200 people if not close proximity will be considered Frontier. This is a whole different event and not even confused at such. Doubtfully, with 200 people they would even consider an EMS or have one run a year (again location).



With all those personal being medical, then I assume you are in close proximity of a metro area. In all actuality you have a medical first response (MFR) system and not an traditional EMS System (since private ALS responds to all calls for transport) which is NOT the same as most volunteer EMS agencies. In all actuality some States do not recognize as an EMS Service rather a Medical First Responder Systems that assists the EMS.

Be careful upon calling someone ignorant. Understanding the Systems portion of EMS and the different types within and then not clumping them all together is part of education that is needed by everyone involved in EMS.

There again will always be areas, that will have to depend upon volunteer EMS agencies. Those are very few in comparison to what is being delivered.

R/r 911

His response to the OP was unwarranted if you re-read it. He never adddressed the points you made so I stand by my contention that HE was ignorant.

As well, you make many assumptions. I am nowhere near a metro area. We do not have one in New Hampshire. The nearest metro area is Boston which is 3 1/2 hours away. We are very rural - that was my point.

And in your last post you stated that we have 200 people. I stated in my post that you quoted that we have 200 CALLS per year. That is why I agree with your point that some places do need to rely on volunteerism.

Just because this is a profession, does not mean that there isn't room for those who have the training to volunteer. It works nicely here - no issues with lawsuits and mostly grateful citizens. I would never want to work in an area where EMS is so cut throat.

And your last statement reflects my opinion, so I think I now understand you position better.

 

[StarOfLife]

Not all volunteer agencies consist of wackers who wear wife beaters, cutoff jeans, and Galls EMT shirts (although I do interact with those agencies on a regular basis). It's easy (and comical) to lump all vollies into that stereotype, but there are also alot of agencies that have professional members among them that take great pride in their work.

Just because you're not getting paid doesn't mean you're not a professional. Yes, there is more incentive to maintain a professional attitude at a paid agency, but if you have solid leadership at any level that maintains standards, then there shouldn't be any issue on professionalism.

Well stated.

 

[StarOfLife]

Please explain to me how much more of an advantage it would be to have an EMT-B over a lay person in any given situation?? All of the EMT cirriculum is COMMON SENSE!!! CPR is easy, can be easy to learn and self taught. You both offer the same thing. Transport and evaulation. The only difference is the fact that you have whackerism EMS with your LED's, air horns, and shiny Galls badges....

If your town was seroius about EMS and it's public service, yes it should have a paid service to attend to person's in need. This is the point people. How can you be considered professional if you go about your business throughout your day, finally get a call @ 3 am in the morning and show up in a pair of jeans and a T-shirt that is from Galls that says "EMT, you only live one life, We help you keep it"???

You sir are ingnorant to the fact is that EMS will never get out of it's dark ages if you consistantly think that volunteer services are acceptable.

I much rather have an agency that consistantly trains and is at the ready to handle an emergency call vs being at your home at 9 in the evening in the middle of hankey pankey, and you decide to respond. You cannot help but think and treat this call as hurry up let's get this over with so I can go home. Consistent professionals at the ready are there for a period of time, do their job and go home. It's not too much to ask for. You only think it is because of narrow mindedness.

Who cares about population maps??? They all show the same thing..... EMS should be a fully support and funded public saftey agency. 2 and 3 counties in a row not having BLS or ALS services to respond. Please. Take a pay cut, enjoy your life as you have it now, and maybe the rest of the community can also enjoy happier lives with a paid EMS service at the ready.

You are certainly ignorant. You obviously have NO experience with volunteer departments. Ours (and every one in our county) trains twice monthly - we do ice rescue, snowmobile rescue, near-drowning rescue, powerpoint presentations on a myriad of medical issues, radiological training, electrical training, and practical refreshers, etc. They are usually given by our members with higher levels of certification. We train more often than both paid services.

Also, please tell me how many lay people actually know CPR and how to do it properly? How often are they tested to ensure their skills are up to par? How many people know how to hold c-spine or establish a patent airway? How many carry O2?

How many laymen can insert a combitube or take a blood pressure? How many know how to assess the signs/symptoms of drug overdose or use an AED? And you would rather your loved one die before a VOLUNTEER who possesses these skills touch them? You have an agenda, sir.

We are all professionals on my department and I know no one in our neighboring towns that is reflective of the stereotype you attempt to perpetuate. Our medic was on the lead team at the World Trade Tower disaster and that type of talent is everwhere in volunteer agencies. Your pay does not ensure that you are skilled, by any means.

Additionally, please convince me that a town of 2200 with 200 calls per year on average should have a paid service manned 24 hours. Why? And there is a shortage of EMTs in my area. Both local services are desperate for help - we have a shortage of certified EMTs and you cannot make people want this as their paid profession. You do and I do (I am starting with a private service next week), but it isn't for everyone, clearly. If we had no volunteers, we would be screwed since it would only further limit the pool of personnel who respond to emergencies.

Oh, and I am not a sir.

 

[TgerFoxMark]

Finally, someone who understands that Volly's can be professional. I know many Paid "Professionals" who dont give a damn about the patients, and hate the entire idea of the job. They want their paycheck, and couldnt care for someone the minute their shift ends. I honestly would rather have a Vollenteer who GIVES A DAMN show up over a Paid person who doesnt give a rats.

 

[Diver911]

"Please explain to me how much more of an advantage it would be to have an EMT-B over a lay person in any given situation??"Niftymedic911

Although I do not agree with the OP of this thread... this is a pretty ridiculous comment. Then to say we only offer "Transport and evaluation.".. you cant be serious..? Not all EMT-Bs can be lumped in with your views... you have had to come across a few that impressed you or maybe even gave you a hand... maybe not though.. I feel sorry for you that you can not see the big picture that all EMS personnel regardless of training have made sacrifices to aid in times of need and sometimes during very stressful situations that maybe the "joe" next to you would not have reacted and possibly ran the other direction. Volunteers do this on a daily basis, which means they do not get paid to do it, but nonetheless they do it anyway.. or the Vollys that pay with their life while on scene.... they sacrificed!

To the OP.. do your time/job and when off duty.. be off duty.. don’t make a fool of yourself or a bad name of the profession parading around like some cowboy.. think before you act..

 

[certguy]

You know , we're all family here , but it's high time the pro's quit beating the vollies down every chance they get . For those who consider EMS as just a paycheck ( don't give a darn about thier fellow man off duty ) I pity your patients . All the puffed up I'M A PAID PROFFESIONAL attitude probably shows in your pt. care when all you want to do is get through your shift and go home . In a perfect world , there'd be paid agencies everywhere , but the simple fact is , the world is far from perfect , budgets are shrinking , not growing , and in many areas , the money just isn't there and doesn't grow on trees to pluck and start new programs . I've worked with excellent vollies and I've seen PRO'S who give totally lousy care and shouldn't be out there . Proffesionalism comes down to the individual . Knock it off with the stereotypes on both sides . Vollie wackers and stuck up overinflated paragods . As I said before , we're all family , let's start acting like it and help each other grow , not put each other down .

 

[Ridryder911]

I will respond, but I hope this does not get locked. It is just a shame that those that took a whopping 150 hour course, assume that they really know anything about EMS and medicine. Seriously, a beautician course is longer to cut hair, than an EMT course is in length to treat the sick and injured.

Sorry, there is very little difference from advanced first-aid and the Basic EMT course. With that course alone, does not allow one to have enough knowledge of EMS, the systems, and definitely not to judge or critique, what is medicine or not. There is NO WAY that level can understand the "big picture" because they have not had the education to understand.

Back to the "root theory" remember that roots continuously grow outward and develop into something bigger and better. Many of us spent years of college, and experience to be proficient in EMS. Please do Not even to attempt to compare a few hours a week or a "week-end" course as equivalent. There is a BIG difference.

Now, as I keep referring that there are remote areas, that will always have to depend upon volunteer EMS agencies. I honor those people.

Please, realize those "special classes" that many are refer to, are not really special to many of us. We have had them, even may have became instructors in those areas, and now I have personally grown tired of hearing about them. In professional services, one usually has to be re-certified or required annual testing over those "special classes". I wished I had a nickel over every "bio-hazard, HIPAA, refresher type courses, etc. ". This is why, many of us may appear "smug" to those posts. It really is not that big of deal for many of us. Considering myself alone have over 400 hours of CEU's; within the past year.

Alike your job you have to be proficient and good in, we have to as well. If your not, you will be sued or be fired. Period.

Many of us that post here, are passionate about EMS. It is NOT a hobby, or something for us to do to feel good about ourselves. So, when we attempt to educate or discuss the "system" we are attempting to explore past the foundation level course that all of us have had. You say you want more education, in fact you are receiving it. It is that you may not agree with it. If possible, just explorer the possibility outside the box or the routine.

R/r 911

 

[TgerFoxMark]

I work both. full time paid, part time Volly! I see both sides, Both have Wackers, Both have Paragods. Deal With it. Get back to being a family! We are not this Disfunctional!