OFF DUTY+ a real emergency.
- Thread starter TgerFoxMark
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enjoynz
Lady Enjoynz
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Ditto to all of this!
In New Zealand we are deemed on duty, if we are off duty and come across any situation where some one needs our help, period!
Which is a the protocol of our Ambulance service.
I carry a (very) basic First Aid kit in the car,with gloves,a face shield and a few dressings.
Cheers Enjoynz
Ops Paramedic
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Off duty + real emergency
There is life outdie the EMS.
There is life outdie the EMS.
BossyCow
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Well, at least there is for some of us. Others.. not so sure!
uscgk9
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Well how about putting a picture of this thing on here.
I too have a few questions. Is your agency total volunteer? Does your area cover a large rural area? How old are you? What level of care does your agency normally provide? Does your agency allow for a response with your POV? What do your friend carry in thier POVs?
I live in a rural area that is paid during the day and total volunteer at night and on weekends. Our volunteers are authorized to proceed directly to the scene as long as someone is getting the ambulance. Many of our ALS providers carry basic equipment in their POVs. Gloves, bandages, dressings, oral airways and a BVM. I carry the same equipment and also have an AED. We don't carry anything such as O2 or any spinal immobilization equipment. In our area it would not be uncommon for 20 minutes to go by before an ambulance gets on the road and another 10-15 before it arrives on scene. If we are close, we may choose to go to the scene and wait for the unit to arrive. If this is close to your case than your trying to do a good thing, you’re just a little over the top.
Good luck and listen to what is being said here. We probably have over 100 years of combined EMS experience and have "been there, done that"
I too have a few questions. Is your agency total volunteer? Does your area cover a large rural area? How old are you? What level of care does your agency normally provide? Does your agency allow for a response with your POV? What do your friend carry in thier POVs?
I live in a rural area that is paid during the day and total volunteer at night and on weekends. Our volunteers are authorized to proceed directly to the scene as long as someone is getting the ambulance. Many of our ALS providers carry basic equipment in their POVs. Gloves, bandages, dressings, oral airways and a BVM. I carry the same equipment and also have an AED. We don't carry anything such as O2 or any spinal immobilization equipment. In our area it would not be uncommon for 20 minutes to go by before an ambulance gets on the road and another 10-15 before it arrives on scene. If we are close, we may choose to go to the scene and wait for the unit to arrive. If this is close to your case than your trying to do a good thing, you’re just a little over the top.
Good luck and listen to what is being said here. We probably have over 100 years of combined EMS experience and have "been there, done that"
Tincanfireman
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Probably doesn't need to be repeated, but... You are treading an extremely fine line between good-heartedness and obsession, as well as opening yourself up to some incredible litigation risk. In addition, any organization you belong to is also going to suffer if something negative happens during an incident (I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's just the way things work sometimes). You can go from "dedicated volunteer" to "public nuisance" quite literally in the time it takes to make a wrong decision. Please reconsider your mode of travel and take a few minutes to take a hard look at what you are doing.
Ridryder911
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I think we should evaluate the situation. Can one imagine a EMT or RN obtaining equipment and opening their own clinic (medical care on wheels, since he cannot transport)? Realistically, it is about the same. What we would think then? We would not realize they are really operating or practicing medicine without a license.
Why do we in EMS presume "we" actually have the right to provide care off duty? Really, if one was really concerned; would he not donate the unit & equipment to a needy area? Again, ego appears to stand in the way, that only "he" can provide the service. Good thing for him (apparently no-one else could do this) the world is safe. That is pretty big issue to fill.
Want to see professionalism? Can one imagine if nurses or physicians started performing exams, pelvics, and other exams in a personal van? Yep, only typical EMT thinking....
R/r 911
Why do we in EMS presume "we" actually have the right to provide care off duty? Really, if one was really concerned; would he not donate the unit & equipment to a needy area? Again, ego appears to stand in the way, that only "he" can provide the service. Good thing for him (apparently no-one else could do this) the world is safe. That is pretty big issue to fill.
Want to see professionalism? Can one imagine if nurses or physicians started performing exams, pelvics, and other exams in a personal van? Yep, only typical EMT thinking....
R/r 911
uscgk9
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R/r911.....sounds like this one kinda rubbed you the wrong way. Someday EMS will be considered a profession. I just hope I'm not in a nursing home before it happens. I shake my head every day when I hear the stupid stuff the other volunteers in my area do or don't do. Wish I could wake up and be Medical Director for the day. I'd have to go to staples and buy more Pink Slips.
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TgerFoxMark
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The unit more often gets used as a first aid stand at the local drag strip, and or other community type events. The rig has been used in local parades, it usally ended up being hot out and some of the marchers would sit on the bumper for a bit. The whole thing is used one way in one area and another way in another.
As to the Paid/Volly thing. I dont want to start the war on this, I live and work in a Paid area, but also run Volly in a nearby rual area as a volly. (Indiana is weird, you can go from City to Farms in less than a mile in places)
Yeah, im a bit nutty, but in my Volly area, it tends to be better than what we have, and the rig is used in the City for community events...
The older rigs may not be dead yet, why let them rust in a junkyard.
As for when its in transport between area, the lightbars are covered.. (Look at how hollywood transports "cop" cars)
As to the Paid/Volly thing. I dont want to start the war on this, I live and work in a Paid area, but also run Volly in a nearby rual area as a volly. (Indiana is weird, you can go from City to Farms in less than a mile in places)
Yeah, im a bit nutty, but in my Volly area, it tends to be better than what we have, and the rig is used in the City for community events...
The older rigs may not be dead yet, why let them rust in a junkyard.
As for when its in transport between area, the lightbars are covered.. (Look at how hollywood transports "cop" cars)
BossyCow
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I would really suggest having an informal chat with a liability attorney who makes a living defending Health Care providers to open your eyes to the huge liability you are assuming with this.
You are creating an expectation of a certain level of service with the appearance of that rig. To create the expectation and then not be able to deliver, is one of those situation that the aforementioned atty's just love!
You are creating an expectation of a certain level of service with the appearance of that rig. To create the expectation and then not be able to deliver, is one of those situation that the aforementioned atty's just love!
Ridryder911
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This really has nothing to do with being paid or volley, rather professionalism and potential vulnerability of the public. There is a reason there is standards set by your state and region, to ensure safety to the public.
Without being a licensed or certified unit, how does the public really know that equipment or personal is of "safe standards"? If your not "fully insured" are you going to cough up the money in one of products you use fails? Are you financially secure to pay a million dollar law suit, to ensure that person receives fair compensation?
If it is for display, or to restore the unit; then I am in all favor of it. Alike Fire Trucks, old police units, etc.. all with the workings but it is well known that they are NOT to provide emergency services.
R/r 911
Without being a licensed or certified unit, how does the public really know that equipment or personal is of "safe standards"? If your not "fully insured" are you going to cough up the money in one of products you use fails? Are you financially secure to pay a million dollar law suit, to ensure that person receives fair compensation?
If it is for display, or to restore the unit; then I am in all favor of it. Alike Fire Trucks, old police units, etc.. all with the workings but it is well known that they are NOT to provide emergency services.
R/r 911
mattulance
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Sounds like a nice rig. I bought a retired 2002 wheeled coach type I about a year ago and I love it. It is great for tailgating and towing a boat down to the river,or whatever. When I bought it I swaped all the lenses and filters to amber and shorted the park kill on the siren, but even though it has no lettering people still sometimes think it is in service. I just tell people that it is out of service and they understand. Ambulances make great trucks and even daily drivers when diesel is cheap or if you have a suppily of bio diesel. I love mine, best truck I ever bought : it will pull anything , the module has a compartment for anything immaginable, it seats 5 (six with a cot) and the dual alternators let me weld while I am driving. It is true anyone who would sell a perfectly good rig to a junk yard is stupid.
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What is the difference between MFR and EMT, anyway, in practice?
I've got a decent BLS bag in the trunk of my car. I have an O2 tank that lives in my shed... I only break it out when I'm doing a first aid standby for the Boy Scouts... I've got no reason or want to keep it in my trunk 24x7.
If I see an accident or something else, if IT IS SAFE, I'll stop and try to help, if it looks like I'm needed. This is a judgement call... I won't stop for a fender-bender, but if the wreck "looks bad" I'll stop and help until the local EMS gets there... I usually have a reflective vest (or 2, or 3) in my car, too, for my safety.
The bag also functions as a first aid kit when I'm out with the family or others... Friends and kids of friends get stung by bees, or slam their hands in doors, or need a bandaid, they ask me, becuase I've got a first aid kit.
I've got a decent BLS bag in the trunk of my car. I have an O2 tank that lives in my shed... I only break it out when I'm doing a first aid standby for the Boy Scouts... I've got no reason or want to keep it in my trunk 24x7.
If I see an accident or something else, if IT IS SAFE, I'll stop and try to help, if it looks like I'm needed. This is a judgement call... I won't stop for a fender-bender, but if the wreck "looks bad" I'll stop and help until the local EMS gets there... I usually have a reflective vest (or 2, or 3) in my car, too, for my safety.
The bag also functions as a first aid kit when I'm out with the family or others... Friends and kids of friends get stung by bees, or slam their hands in doors, or need a bandaid, they ask me, becuase I've got a first aid kit.
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TgerFoxMark
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I will have photos of my rig up once i get my camera figured out. (new digital one, no clue how to work it... I miss my 35mm.)
BioDiesel is pretty easy to get around here for cheap, and the rig can move just about anything I need to, does a great job with the travel trailer. my Dodge Dakota strains to move the thing 318 v8 BTW.. the old ambulance, doesnt even blink. and it has a place for everything... OCD plus plenty of compartments!
emtwacker710
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I agree with you also, I am the same way, I carry my FD turnout gear in my truck along with my BLS trauma bag and have warning lights on my vehicle, except for when I am in school I consider myself on call 24-7-365 as I am in a vol. company...nothing wrong with it
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Ridryder911
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BossyCow
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I have driven by incidents and I have stopped. It's a totally subjective thing. To say you will stop at all of them is just as ridiculous as saying you will never stop.
I am in a very rural area. I respond POV to department calls. I have no lights, just a radio and a small kit. My kit lives in my car because that way I always have it, in the trunk, next to my 24hr SAR pack. I also have a bag with my turnouts for fire response or MVAs.
Now, if I have friends in the car with me, I am not stopping for a non-blocking wreck in broad daylight with a crowd already forming. I'll call it in, but probably won't stop.
If its a traffic hazard, I will probably stop and ask if they need help. I did that before I was an EMT and I still do it. I will offer to call dispatch, or to set flares so more cars don't join the party. If there are obvious injuries that I can offer first aid for, I probably will.
I did stop for a wreck once, it happened right in front of me. It was a blocking head on. I had my kit, I set flares and did a quick triage. I stayed until the local fire department responded and held c-spine on a woman who ended up being airlifted to the local trauma center.
It was a judgement call. My response was more as a human being doing what was necessary to help my fellow human beings, than as an EMT. I gave my name and cert level to the responding agency and was listed as mutual aid responder on their paperwork. The scene was a two lane highway, flat, straight, full daylight, with wide shoulders. I could offer some assistance at a minimal risk to myself and my vehicle. My vehicle wasn't going anywhere until the road cleared anyway.
I do not believe I am an EMT 24/7. I do carry a pager/radio and I am available to respond to calls much of the time. When I can, I go. If I've had a drink or two, if I've taken allergy meds or if I'm overtired, or have to wake up early the next morning, I turn my radio off. I have a life outside of EMS.
I am in a very rural area. I respond POV to department calls. I have no lights, just a radio and a small kit. My kit lives in my car because that way I always have it, in the trunk, next to my 24hr SAR pack. I also have a bag with my turnouts for fire response or MVAs.
Now, if I have friends in the car with me, I am not stopping for a non-blocking wreck in broad daylight with a crowd already forming. I'll call it in, but probably won't stop.
If its a traffic hazard, I will probably stop and ask if they need help. I did that before I was an EMT and I still do it. I will offer to call dispatch, or to set flares so more cars don't join the party. If there are obvious injuries that I can offer first aid for, I probably will.
I did stop for a wreck once, it happened right in front of me. It was a blocking head on. I had my kit, I set flares and did a quick triage. I stayed until the local fire department responded and held c-spine on a woman who ended up being airlifted to the local trauma center.
It was a judgement call. My response was more as a human being doing what was necessary to help my fellow human beings, than as an EMT. I gave my name and cert level to the responding agency and was listed as mutual aid responder on their paperwork. The scene was a two lane highway, flat, straight, full daylight, with wide shoulders. I could offer some assistance at a minimal risk to myself and my vehicle. My vehicle wasn't going anywhere until the road cleared anyway.
I do not believe I am an EMT 24/7. I do carry a pager/radio and I am available to respond to calls much of the time. When I can, I go. If I've had a drink or two, if I've taken allergy meds or if I'm overtired, or have to wake up early the next morning, I turn my radio off. I have a life outside of EMS.
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Niftymedic911
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Three words.......
Oh My God........ What are you thinking??? I should come over there and slap the crap out of you until your blues turn blue.
This is a perfect example of why EMS SHOULD NEVER OF BEEN VOLUNTEER!!!!! Your off-duty, YOUR OFF DUTY!! That's it plain and simple. Drop the save all to save all attitude.
Another thread was asking what's wrong with EMS??? THIS IS WHAT'S WRONG. People buy old ambulances so they can drive around and play giant idiot whacker EMT.
Please do not move to Florida or in my area.... You will never touch me or my family.
Oh My God........ What are you thinking??? I should come over there and slap the crap out of you until your blues turn blue.
This is a perfect example of why EMS SHOULD NEVER OF BEEN VOLUNTEER!!!!! Your off-duty, YOUR OFF DUTY!! That's it plain and simple. Drop the save all to save all attitude.
Another thread was asking what's wrong with EMS??? THIS IS WHAT'S WRONG. People buy old ambulances so they can drive around and play giant idiot whacker EMT.
Please do not move to Florida or in my area.... You will never touch me or my family.
OP
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TgerFoxMark
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In areas that cannot afford to run a 24 hour Paid service, would you rather have a volly help you or NO-ONE... Not everywhere is built up enough to even get one run a day, why pay someone to sit around. Its the same with the FD.
Learn your Geography and look at a population map!
http://www.mapsofworld.com/usa/thematic-maps/usa-population-map.html
I even found you one!
Learn your Geography and look at a population map!
http://www.mapsofworld.com/usa/thematic-maps/usa-population-map.html
I even found you one!
Ridryder911
EMS Guru
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Another EMS wives tale. I much rather have someone that is prepared to respond immediately, and do not have to leave their families and home to get to me.
How about consolidating EMS services and rotating the crews to get some down time? It is done and can be done in a lot of areas. I am currently setting in a local community <1000 with coverage of about 500 square miles. Average is 1.3 calls a day. We took over with at the least of one and possibly two Paramedics on each truck. The good thing is it allows the crews some well deserved "down time" from our primary response area (where run about 16-18 calls per person/24 hrs).
I am quite aware of the EMS crisis. Currently in my state the Governor has issued yesterday that the state currently has an EMS crisis. We have three counties (some with 800 square miles) with no local EMS coverage. The nearest one is about 45 to 60 minutes away. It is not unusual for EMS helicopter services to be the primary responder (no ground unit).
The answer is the public has to be educated that EMS is an essential service! Does your county/community have a County Health Department, a nursing home, possibly a hospital within itself, and Sheriff's Department?
Then it can afford a EMS. Again, it is all in the priorities it self for itself.
I can assure you if you have an EMS, they will not be setting around. The reason most rural citizens do not call EMS is because if they are volunteers (and they know most of the members), it takes a while for them to get to the scene. Compare the EMS run numbers, and after 6 months with a professional EMS see if there is a difference...One will be surprised.
The difficulty is making citizens aware that not every community can have their own EMS, just alike hospitals had to do several years ago. Hence "Regional Medical Centers". Now, we also have to have pay structures for reimbursement of an essential service. You do usually get what you pay for in return. Ad valorem taxes, bond issues can assist operations along with proper billing and charges to off set the costs.
R/r 911