Nurses vs EMT/Paramedics in EMS

mycrofft said:
EMT's (that included Paramedics at the time; still does) were invented here to quickly upgrade the availability in the early Seventies onwards of some sort of improved quality of immediate care and transport.
Fast and economical: EMT/Paramedic.

RN's if trained are capable but you will need to train them up from scratch, mostly. Some you will recruit. Takes longer to do, but you can get a greater depth of knowledge and care.

If you want to essentially do "house calls" and not just prepare and transport, maybe you want nurses, but the expense and time factors will be quite a bit higher. "EMT" and "Nurse" are not different ruings on the same ladder, they are very different here in the USA; being just titles, you can make either what you want of them, given time.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. I've heard straight from more than a few program chief flight RN's and they all say that it takes LONGER to train an ER/ICU RN to be a flight RN that does scene calls than it does to train that same RN who's already experienced as a Paramedic. It's not so much a change in technical training, but a mental shift. A good ER/ICU RN with EMT training, a Paramedic Internship, and some FTO time would probably make an excellent (and safe) prehospital provider.

RN's just aren't trained for the prehospital environment (and the safety considerations, patient packaging, etc for that environment) right out of school. It's not a knock on their knowledge, but simply recognition of their own training limitations... and I recognize my own limitations as a medic as well. I wouldn't do as well as an RN in the ICU (and certain portions of the ER) setting without the appropriate education, scopes of practice notwithstanding.
 
I think that you should get rid of all nurse based ambulances for the following reasons:
1. Nurses can use more meds then paramedics so if you manned the rig with medics you wouldn't have to carry so many meds.
2. Nurses are medication happy when a doctor isn't breathing down their neck, shoot they'd do an IVP just because they can.
3. Nurses are just plain idiots! They don't listen to signs and symptoms of patients they just like to play god.
4. EMT's don't know as much as Nurses so they are more likely to just treat the patient's symptoms instead of trying to beat the doctors at a treatment plan.
 
EMS_rabbit said:
I think that you should get rid of all nurse based ambulances for the following reasons:
1. Nurses can use more meds then paramedics so if you manned the rig with medics you wouldn't have to carry so many meds.
2. Nurses are medication happy when a doctor isn't breathing down their neck, shoot they'd do an IVP just because they can.
3. Nurses are just plain idiots! They don't listen to signs and symptoms of patients they just like to play god.
4. EMT's don't know as much as Nurses so they are more likely to just treat the patient's symptoms instead of trying to beat the doctors at a treatment plan.
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Did someone forget their [/sarcasm] tag, or...?
 
EMS_rabbit said:
4. EMT's don't know as much as Nurses so they are more likely to just treat the patient's symptoms instead of trying to beat the doctors at a treatment plan.
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Well... that's it. Ambulances should be manned by EMS fellowship trained, emergency medicine board certified emergency physicians.
:PB)
 
fortsmithman said:
Like they have in France.
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Except we'll take the middle road when it comes to, say, trauma. No need for lights and sirens, but we won't sit on scene all day waiting for the patient to magically get better.
 
EMS_rabbit said:
I think that you should get rid of all nurse based ambulances for the following reasons:
1. Nurses can use more meds then paramedics so if you manned the rig with medics you wouldn't have to carry so many meds.
2. Nurses are medication happy when a doctor isn't breathing down their neck, shoot they'd do an IVP just because they can.
3. Nurses are just plain idiots! They don't listen to signs and symptoms of patients they just like to play god.
4. EMT's don't know as much as Nurses so they are more likely to just treat the patient's symptoms instead of trying to beat the doctors at a treatment plan.
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Curious if this poster is intelligent enough to figure out how he directly contradicted his original assertions.

Wonder if the mods will be removing his post...?
 
JPINFV said:
Except we'll take the middle road when it comes to, say, trauma. No need for lights and sirens, but we won't sit on scene all day waiting for the patient to magically get better.
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But could we cut them open and fix them on scene?

To briefly defend the french though I owe them no allegiance, a blunt force traumatic arrest patient could be ejected from the car onto a waiting table at a gethering of scrubbed in legends in trauma surgery and there would be very little that could be done for them.
 
8jimi8 said:
Curious if this poster is intelligent enough to figure out how he directly contradicted his original assertions.

Wonder if the mods will be removing his post...?
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I think it was more an exercise in attention seeking
 
EMS_rabbit said:
I think that you should get rid of all nurse based ambulances for the following reasons:
1. Nurses can use more meds then paramedics so if you manned the rig with medics you wouldn't have to carry so many meds.
2. Nurses are medication happy when a doctor isn't breathing down their neck, shoot they'd do an IVP just because they can.
3. Nurses are just plain idiots! They don't listen to signs and symptoms of patients they just like to play god.
4. EMT's don't know as much as Nurses so they are more likely to just treat the patient's symptoms instead of trying to beat the doctors at a treatment plan.
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For his sake I hope he forgot his sarcasm tags. OTherwise that's the biggest steaming pile I've read on this forum in a long time.
 
Linuss said:
Granted the whole post was just... yeah... I thought I'd correct just one thing:



Not true.
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Meh, depends on what their standing orders are.
 
Veneficus said:
To briefly defend the french though I owe them no allegiance, a blunt force traumatic arrest patient could be ejected from the car onto a waiting table at a gethering of scrubbed in legends in trauma surgery and there would be very little that could be done for them.
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Trauma arrests tend to stay dead, as we all well know. I know of at least one local case where a patient was struck by a car /in front of the regional trauma center/ and didn't make it. I'm sure there are plenty of such stories out there.
 
EMSLaw said:
Trauma arrests tend to stay dead, as we all well know. I know of at least one local case where a patient was struck by a car /in front of the regional trauma center/ and didn't make it. I'm sure there are plenty of such stories out there.
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But a lot of people try to demonstrate the failure of the French EMS system (which is diametrically opposed to the US system in most respects) because the French physican on scene tried to resuscitate a famous princess unsuccessfully.
 
JPINFV said:
Except we'll take the middle road when it comes to, say, trauma. No need for lights and sirens, but we won't sit on scene all day waiting for the patient to magically get better.
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Hey, hey, if you wanna get pissy about Princess Di, you have to be a subject of the queen...(despite Her Majesty's hatred of said princess) ;) You had your revolution, you don't get to complain about the french killing your royalty :P

adamjh3 said:
Did someone forget their [/sarcasm] tag, or...?
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I want to say "Evidently", but after a year of living on these forums...I just don't know anymore.

EDIT: Speak of the devil, Vene.
 
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John E said:
Can you imagine sticking an EMT into a nursing home...?

John E
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It can suck at times. I'm currently doing just that, while I'm looking to get a PT job at one of the local ambulance companies, then go FT once a slot opens up
 
What was the name of that character...

on Trauma again? Oh yeah, it's "Rabbit"...

John E
 
John E said:
on Trauma again? Oh yeah, it's "Rabbit"...

John E
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Was that the one that did a 45 second diagnosis of a Pericardial Tamponade?
 
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