Missouri Fire/EMS District Bans Employee Smoking

[reaper]

I think they should ban any use of Motorcycles,fast food, drinking anything but water and the list could go on and on. These are all things that will kill you and cause insurance rates to rise. So ban them all!

Then they should ban the use of perfume, Cologne, body wash and some deodorants. These all can cause Pt's problems and can down right stink up a truck for 12 hours!

Yes, I smoke and yes, I do not care if they ban them or not. I choose where I work and I work where I want. That is my personal choice.

The worst PR mess they created was the smoking ban on hospital properties. Drive by any hospital now a days and you will see Nurses,Dr's and Pt's standing on the sidewalk in front of the hospital smoking. I think that is the worst site there is and is a great image to portray. Rather then being smart, like some hospitals, and making areas for smoking, that is out of site, they make their institutions look like crap.

I agree with no smoking in restaurants and public buildings, I think you have to have courtesy for others!

 

[VentMedic]

The worst PR mess they created was the smoking ban on hospital properties. Drive by any hospital now a days and you will see Nurses,Dr's and Pt's standing on the sidewalk in front of the hospital smoking.

The trend in FL hospitals is now the same as the FDs, you are a nonsmoker at the time of hire.

they should ban the use of perfume, Cologne, body wash and some deodorants.

That gets you sent home with a reprimand if it interferes with patient care. Happens again and the disciplinary ladder starts with termination in your future. Its in the hospital employee handbook along with jewelry and tattoos.

Today it's smoking and drinking, maybe tomorrow they will dictate what type of car you can drive based upon safety statistics/insurance rates.

Do you know how many EMT(P)s we may see in our cardiopulmonary labs who want to file for disability because of some health problem? Many weigh over 300 pounds and have a cigarette dangling from their lips on the day they come to be tested. Since the pre-exam instructions specifically states to refrain from smoking at least 4 hours (24 preferable) before the test, I just catch them as they are putting out the cigarette and tell them to get out and come back when they can understand the instructions. They are too stupid to put out the cigarette before we can see them. Of course the COHb will also be present in the blood sample. They will then whine about how difficult and stressful their job is as I'm trying to get their fat arse into the plethysmography booth for their PFT. In realty they may be a Paramedic working for a private BLS ambulance doing scheduled routine transports from 8 - 4. If they are a FF(medic) with a cigarette, they may not get another chance...period.

People need to take responsibility for their own health before someone tells them to. Those on these EMS forums complain about alcoholics and drug addicts but yet some in EMS go on disability and suck up tax payers' money due to poor physical shape by their own doing. Those same EMS providers are also why the out of pocket cost for insurance is high and the company is strained by sick day usage.

Other companies have complied. FFs get the message. Why is it that EMS which is supposed to be a healthcare profession plays the clueless card? But then, many in EMS do not understand reimbursement and insurance even if these things bit them in their big dyspneic butt.

 

[reaper]

I agree with the obese, out of shape providers. Ban the fast food!

I am in great shape, I have smoked for 25 years, that is my choice. I am not looking for disability for a respiratory problem, unless it is caused by a chemical agent.

I have every right to use my insurance, if I need it. I pay the higher rates and will damn sure use it. I don't drink, ride motorcycles, do drugs or stuff my face full of crap. So, I am no different then anyone else, because almost everyone does one of those things listed.

Nothing affects everyone the same way. You may never smoke and die of lung cancer or COPD. You may smoke like a chimney and never have a health problem a day in your life. So, you can not lump all things into groups.

Again, If a company wants to ban things they can, that is their choice. Just as it is our choice not to work for that company.

 

[VentMedic]

I am in great shape, I have smoked for 25 years, that is my choice. I am not looking for disability for a respiratory problem, unless it is caused by a chemical agent.

Do you have a baseline and a recent PFT on file yet? Most aren't aware of how poor the cardiopulmonary function is until their first MI. Don't claim your "good health" is due to smoking and I would be not trusting luck for a long healthy life. When it finally happens, you are no better than the person that you criticize for drinking or smoking too much at 0300. You actually should know better and when you do appear in the PF labs, you will be their "oh woe is me" patient as you are saying "I've always been in great health even though I smoked 25 years". Do you honestly know how ridiculous you sound?

 

[reaper]

Yes, my cardiopulmonary is in good health. I am tested every year for work. Sorry, I am not a oh pity me person. If I do have problems down the line, then I know that I caused them. Sorry you are not treating every smoker in the PF labs and that would be wrong to think that.

I take full responsibility for my actions in life and any results from them. I am not forcing them on you or anyone else.

Are we banning products that help cause Diabetes? Products that help cause renal failure? No we are not. They cost just as much in health care costs, so why not lump them in. Why? Because we have the right to choose how we live our lives. I don't tell others how to live their lives and I expect the same in return! How would you like to have someone tell you, that you can not fly? That is a major health risk and a choice you make in life.

Like I said, a company can ban all they want at work. What I do in my own time, is my business. I also have the choice not to work for those companies.

 

[usafmedic45]

Most aren't aware of how poor the cardiopulmonary function is until their first MI.

You may smoke like a chimney and never have a health problem a day in your life.

As one of the pathologist I know is fond of saying, "Sudden onset or no history most of the time means someone wasn't paying close enough attention".

Nothing affects everyone the same way. You may never smoke and die of lung cancer or COPD.

No, but it can kill you in a number of ways or just plain destroy your quality of life. Mortality is not the sole measure of health impact in the way a lot of EMS providers like to treat it. Of course, we as a group have this nasty tendency to clap each on the backs for a code save with all the cognitive function of Terri Schiavo.

So, you can not lump all things into groups.

This is true, but within reason. You seem to forget that caveat.

 

[VentMedic]

Because we have the right to choose how we live our lives. I don't tell others how to live their lives and I expect the same in return! How would you like to have someone tell you, that you can not fly? That is a major health risk and a choice you make in life.

Like I said, a company can ban all they want at work. What I do in my own time, is my business. I also have the choice not to work for those companies.

If I have an addiction or health problem that interferes with my job they have every right to tell me I'm off the job. My insurance rates did reflect what I did and luckily the company paid for most of it. And yes, you do take out extra insurance to plan for the welfare of your family. I also no longer hold a private pilot's license due to insurance rates. For the amount I was actually flying it wasn't worth it. I also know I no longer have to fly and since I have suffered no injuries from it, including loss of hearing, my life continues. However, if I had put in as many years smoking as I did in EMS, even though I might be in good health now, that smoking history will follow me. Many of my COPD patients haven't smoked in 20 years but are now spending their retirement years hooked up to an O2 tank.

If you have an alcohol or drug problem, you will be put on probation while in recovery. If you can not clean up, you are out. Nicotine should not be any different. In fact you are in the same boat as the patients you complain about on the street except many of them can claim a mental illness as their reason for not assuming responsibilty for their life.

As you said you have the right not to work for an employer that you believe to be too strict. The other employees will probably thank you for not infringing upon their right to have clean air and decent insurance rates.

reaper, I love your posts. Stop smoking so we can continue the debates from our rocking chairs.

 

[minneola24]

The Pentagon is thinking of banning tobacco use for the U.S. Military, this will be interesting.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/12/military.smoking.ban/index.html

 

[reaper]

If I have an addiction or health problem that interferes with my job they have every right to tell me I'm off the job. My insurance rates did reflect what I did and luckily the company paid for most of it. And yes, you do take out extra insurance to plan for the welfare of your family. I also no longer hold a private pilot's license due to insurance rates. For the amount I was actually flying it wasn't worth it. I also know I no longer have to fly and since I have suffered no injuries from it, including loss of hearing, my life continues. However, if I had put in as many years smoking as I did in EMS, even though I might be in good health now, that smoking history will follow me. Many of my COPD patients haven't smoked in 20 years but are now spending their retirement years hooked up to an O2 tank.

If you have an alcohol or drug problem, you will be put on probation while in recovery. If you can not clean up, you are out. Nicotine should not be any different. In fact you are in the same boat as the patients you complain about on the street except many of them can claim a mental illness as their reason for not assuming responsibilty for their life.

As you said you have the right not to work for an employer that you believe to be too strict. The other employees will probably thank you for not infringing upon their right to have clean air and decent insurance rates.

reaper, I love your posts. Stop smoking so we can continue the debates from our rocking chairs.

But that is the whole Plan! I don't want to see the rocking chair.

 

[usafmedic45]

But that is the whole Plan! I don't want to see the rocking chair.

Not a fan of the idea of having grandchildren?

 

[reaper]

Not a fan of getting old!

 

[usafmedic45]

Not a fan of getting old!

I look forward to be old and cantankerous. I'm already achieved half that goal at 29!

 

[DrankTheKoolaid]

re

A ban on smoking in the military is both laughable and and a waste of mine and your taxpayer dollars to have our socalled political leaders even wasting time discussing it. When i was in the military at least 1/3 and thats being kind, smoked. Are these pissants that have probably never served their country thinking that people are knockng down their doors to join and risk a chance at an early grave?

Now lets say they were to pass a non smoking ordinance in the military, and lets say a 1/3 leave because of it. Whos going to fill the void they leave? The flippin coward politicians or their chldren? i think not. Until youve walked a mile in a soldiers boot's and experienced the REAL stress that they endure..... Man up join the military and pickup a weapon and join them in the fields, there you can tell them not to smoke. But be leary of using the latrine alone as frag's mysterously tend to hit latrines when the crap disturbers use them.

 

[VentMedic]

Until youve walked a mile in a soldiers boot's and experienced the REAL stress that they endure.....

So you are going to deal with stress using nicotine, an addiction and excuses?

 

[DrankTheKoolaid]

re

No thats not how i deal with stress and to be honest ive quit smoking before and made it a year without. Then i picked up a beer, big mistake..... Anyways i personally am trying to quit again. And if you read a little bit further into why they are talking about banning cigarettes in the miliary, it's not just GI health it's also because of the lost tax revenue and subsidization as GI's are not taxed in PX's. If the hypocrits in government want to really solve it once and for all they wil ban all tobacco related products, in the U.S. period. Of course that wont happen because the taxation on the tobacco industry is what keeps alot of the government programs afloat. And without it our national, federal, state and local government economies would tank.

 

[usafmedic45]

Before you bust a blood vessel over this, perhaps you should look at who is advocating this. It came from the Pentagon at the request of the Army surgeon general and several "pissants" who have "risked a chance at an early grave" as you so eloquently put it. To provide a little backstory as to why this was done (at least the research behind it), perhaps you should look at the amount of sick call and convalescent leave is taken because of upper respiratory infections, bronchitis and cardiac isses among smokers. Also, if you were so inclined you could look at the number of people who get evac'ed out of Iraq, Afghanistan and other theaters for non-combat related issues. There is a very high correlation with smoking and the loss of combat readiness at an individual level.

Until youve walked a mile in a soldiers boot's and experienced the REAL stress that they endure.....

I have been in the military, I've been under fire and still think the ban is a nothing short of a great idea.

But be leary of using the latrine alone as frag's mysterously tend to hit latrines when the crap disturbers use them.

Yeah, those are exactly the type of people I want representing my country. Someone unstable enough to think that fragging a latrine is a good response to "No, you can't have a cigarette". Perhaps the military is better off without them?

 

[minneola24]

Yeah, tobaco for soldiers is a huge stress relief I hear. Also, your point on it will cost alot, it probably will to stop it but read this:

The study says that tobacco use costs the Pentagon $846 million a year in medical care and lost productivity. The report estimates that 37 percent of soldiers use tobacco.

 

[VentMedic]

Corky, have you ever talked to an older veteran with his voice synthesizer?

Over the past 30 years, with my roots for RT in the VA hospital, I have dealt with patients from WWII, Korea, Vietnam and Desert Storm. Most of them now say the same thing. They wish they knew at 18 what they know now or they wish someone has kicked some sense into their head to not take up a habit that would cause them such pain later. At 18 it is much easier to quit than at 38 or 48 when being hooked up to a ventilator in a hospital forces you to quit.

Of course that wont happen because the taxation on the tobacco industry is what keeps alot of the government programs afloat. And without it our national, federal, state and local government economies would tank.

While money from the cigarette tax provides some income for the U.S., do you seriously believe it will make that much difference for our national deficit. The land used for tobacco could easily be converted to another crop just as this government has done to other farmlands.

 

[DrankTheKoolaid]

re

USAF, your mistaking representing and serving their countries.

These soldiers are putting their lives on the line serving our country and fighting for individual freedoms. Only to have someone arrogant enough to even suggest TAKING AWAY one of there own personal freedoms they are trying to defend. You know, so what if it cost that much to provide healthcare to our soldiers they are worth every penny. America is in the business of war and 846 million is nothing but a drop in the military budget bucket. If they want to look at saving on some of the actual wasteful spending how about looking into some of the contracts with the vendors. Until then our government need to stay out of personal lives and decisions

As a matter of fact why dont they ban alcohol for soldiers? And in the country for matter. Im on my phone or would google some stats, but alcohol related healthcare and deaths are at least as much if not more then tobacco related costs. Why you ask? Because we are a country of hypocrites and know that it's going to happen anyways so the government keeps it legal simply to keep it taxed for a steady source of revenue.

 

[VentMedic]

USAF, your mistaking representing and serving their countries.

These soldiers are putting their lives on the line serving our country and fighting for individual freedoms. Only to have someone arrogant enough to even suggest TAKING AWAY one of there own personal freedoms they are trying to defend. You know, so what if it cost that much to provide healthcare to our soldiers they are worth every penny. America is in the business of war and 846 million is nothing but a drop in the military budget bucket. If they want to look at saving on some of the actual wasteful spending how about looking into some of the contracts with the vendors. Until then our government need to stay out of personal lives and decisions

I find the fact that you are arguing for something that can do harm to an 18 y/o absurd. Is it not bad enough they risk losing their lives in war but you are also encouraging them the chance to have a lifetime of suffering if they survive. What is with some in this profession? Is there truly not enough education about healthcare?

We should be glad that the government has gotten involved in helping to curb smoking. 18 y/os will have one less problem that will affect their future and those who have been making excuses for years will now have the support they need to quit.