medics with attitudes

JCFE-Medic2112 said:
Wisconsin actually got rid of test out RN to Paramedic because it was apparent that it was not working here. They found that the Basic skills were lacking. Now in Wisconsin, an RN can run as a Basic after going to an EMT Basic class. After that they can operate at the Intermediate level too, and then they can take a separate course for the ALS Prehospital aspects not taught in Nursing school to be able to operate as Paramedics.

With that said, RNs are not worth a **** without Basic skills either. Basic skills are not defined by an EMT Basic class, they are defined by your Patient Care.

And yes, some of the best providers I have ever met also did not take the traditional route, but they do have great Basic Skills, and they are absolutely needed to be able to provide good ALS.
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Heh, I have decided to forgo medic school to pursue my RN, but plan on challenging the medic testing when I'm done. Remember, some RNs spent plenty of time as Intermediates or Basics before they decided on another path. Goes with the blanket statement bit from FFEMT
 
JCFE-Medic2112 said:
With that said, RNs are not worth a **** without Basic skills either. Basic skills are not defined by an EMT Basic class, they are defined by your Patient Care.
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Is that why we spend more time in clinicals alone that you spend in the entirety of your medic program? Not to mention, as far as basic skills go, we certify our competency all the way through. If we do not possess the skills that the program requires for the particular place we are in clinical, we are given one chance to remediate, after that, we are gone.

Is that why some of the best flight teams are composed of an RN/RN configuration? You are delusional or severely misinformed.
 
ffemt8978 said:
Yeah, and what happens in Wisconsin applies everywhere else in the country or the world. :wacko:

If I was you, I'd avoid making blanket statements like yours that you aren't going to be able to prove outside of a limited area.
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Thank You Doctor.
 
jtpaintball70 said:
Heh, I have decided to forgo medic school to pursue my RN, but plan on challenging the medic testing when I'm done. Remember, some RNs spent plenty of time as Intermediates or Basics before they decided on another path. Goes with the blanket statement bit from FFEMT
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Could you please try reading the entire post? There were no blanket statements made at all.
 
JCFE-Medic2112 said:
Could you please try reading the entire post? There were no blanket statements made at all.
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Sure, I'll even highlight them in bold for you.

JCFE-Medic2112 said:
All Paramedic services in the State of Wisconsin that were providing ALS prior to 2001 MUST be a 2 Paramedic rig, period.

Also, in Wisconsin, all levels of EMS are Licensed though the State, then Credentialed through their service and service Medical Director.

To be a good Paramedic, you need to first be a great Basic.

You don't need squat to be a *edited* Paramedic though, except a bad attitude and a lack of compassion- which coincidentally is the same recipe for a sh!tty Basic.

My Basic and/or Intermediate partners thankfully are all awesome, and always eager to learn, and have great skills. You give what you get and you get what you give. This is a Team sport, and every single call can be a teachable moment if you open your mind instead of your mouth, and let it happen.

The Paragod attitude is something that old Paramedics fall back on when they can't remember why they do what they do, and it is a facade for those new medics that can't accept the fact that they are truly clueless. Paragods need to have their licenses revoked, because it is no longer about the patient for them, it is about themselves and their egos. Then there are the Critical Care Basics... those who think that they know it all, and when the Paramedic does something different, they come onto a website and *EDITED* and moan about Paramedics with attitudes instead of taking the time to learn what the Paramedic was doing and why.

Oh, and Hi there! I am new here! :)
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JCFE-Medic2112 said:
Wisconsin actually got rid of test out RN to Paramedic because it was apparent that it was not working here. They found that the Basic skills were lacking. Now in Wisconsin, an RN can run as a Basic after going to an EMT Basic class. After that they can operate at the Intermediate level too, and then they can take a separate course for the ALS Prehospital aspects not taught in Nursing school to be able to operate as Paramedics.

With that said, RNs are not worth a **** without Basic skills either. Basic skills are not defined by an EMT Basic class, they are defined by your Patient Care.

And yes, some of the best providers I have ever met also did not take the traditional route, but they do have great Basic Skills, and they are absolutely needed to be able to provide good ALS.
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And I am not a Doctor, nor do I play one on TV.
 
medicRob said:
Is that why we spend more time in clinicals alone that you spend in the entirety of your medic program? Not to mention, as far as basic skills go, we certify our competency all the way through. If we do not possess the skills that the program requires for the particular place we are in clinical, we are given one chance to remediate, after that, we are gone.

Is that why some of the best flight teams are composed of an RN/RN configuration? You are delusional or severely misinformed.
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Do you or do you not agree that a proficient care provider must have good Basic skills?

Competency is one thing, proficiency is a different matter.
 
ffemt8978 said:
Sure, I'll even highlight them in bold for you.




And I am not a Doctor, nor do I play one on TV.
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I will stand by those statements as being blanket statements, regardless of State or Country. They do apply. You have no business doing any patient care if you cannot be proficient in Basic skills.
 
JCFE-Medic2112 said:
Thank You Doctor.
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What an arrogant, peacock you are. You come in talking about ParaGod's needing their licenses revoked, yet you come up with arrogant statements like this. You sound an awful lot like someone with "ParaGod Syndrome" to me. Also, you master your basics as part of your competency in paramedic and in nursing school, even in transition.

Do you honestly mean to tell me there is a Paramedic out there that does not know how to use a BVM??
 
JCFE-Medic2112 said:
I will stand by those statements as being blanket statements, regardless of State or Country. They do apply. You have no business doing any patient care if you cannot be proficient in Basic skills.
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Maybe to a certain extent, in certain circumstances, but let me point out one of your blanket statements that utterly fails.

JCFE-Medic2112 said:
To be a good Paramedic, you need to first be a great Basic.
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By your statement, you can't be a good paramedic without being a great basic first. So what about this member, RidRyder911, who was never a basic but first entered EMS as a medic. The same RidRyder who has help write the very textbooks that teach your "great basics" or "good medics", who lectures EMS providers around the country, and writes/reviews test questions for the NREMT.

That was my point about not making blanket statements, because somebody here will prove you wrong on them.
 
ffemt8978 said:
Maybe to a certain extent, in certain circumstances, but let me point out one of your blanket statements that utterly fails.


By your statement, you can't be a good paramedic without being a great basic first. So what about this member, RidRyder911, who was never a basic but first entered EMS as a medic. The same RidRyder who has help write the very textbooks that teach your "great basics" or "good medics", who lectures EMS providers around the country, and writes/reviews test questions for the NREMT.

That was my point about not making blanket statements, because somebody here will prove you wrong on them.
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You do not need to have been an EMT-Basic ever, to be a good "Basic", meaning, having a grasp of Basic Life Support.
 
JCFE-Medic2112 said:
You do not need to have been an EMT-Basic ever, to be a good "Basic", meaning, having a grasp of Basic Life Support.
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That may have been what you meant, but to several of us reading your posts in context, it appeared as if you were referring to EMT-Basic.
 
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medicRob said:
What an arrogant, peacock you are. You come in talking about ParaGod's needing their licenses revoked, yet you come up with arrogant statements like this. You sound an awful lot like someone with "ParaGod Syndrome" to me. Also, you master your basics as part of your competency in paramedic and in nursing school, even in transition.

Do you honestly mean to tell me there is a Paramedic out there that does not know how to use a BVM??
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Do you define Basic Life Support with "monkey skills"?

Paragods have no business in this line of work.

Being a good EMT-Basic, or proficient in Basic Life Support is by no means defined by the monkey skills.
 
The rest of you should look in the mirror and ask yourselves what makes you feel like a man when you see your face in the morning.
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Gosh, I hope nothing makes me feel like a man in the morning...
 
JCFE-Medic2112 said:
Are you a great Basic?
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I would assume not considering I worked for a whole 5 shifts as an EMT,with EMT level education (read: minimal) and no experience before going to Paramedic school and finishing at the top of my class. But clearly medic students never do any 'basic' stuff during clinicals, or while working in the field as a medic, right?



I can't objectively tell you how good or bad I am, but a couple of people here have seen me work, so they can vouch for how good or bad I am. For all I know I'm a horrible provider and am extremely lucky I haven't killed half my patients.
 
JCFE-Medic2112 said:
Do you define Basic Life Support with "monkey skills"?

Paragods have no business in this line of work.

Being a good EMT-Basic, or proficient in Basic Life Support is by no means defined by the monkey skills.
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As ffemt pointed out, your post appeared to have absolutely nothing to do with basic skills, it appeared that you were talking with regard to "EMT-Basics". Yes, I agree that the basics are the foundation upon which our care is delivered and is in a lot of cases the thing that saves our asses, but as far as "RN's to Paramedic" not being "****" as you call it, I take offense. This might be the case in your area, but don't try to apply it to all areas, this is certainly not true in my area here in TN, and I am willing to bet that it is not true in many other areas as well.

Whether your coming to that conclusion is based on the definition of skill set or on the basis of general education, I will have to implore you to look further into both counts.

Our programs are all accredited, if you are not accredited you do not test. We have along with our skill set, a foundation in general education to include Anatomy & Physiology (Not the little abbreviated paramedic version either), General Biology, Chemistry, Microbiology, English Composition (which many paramedics severely lack skills in), Pharmacology (An individual class dedicated in its entirety to the study of drugs and their interactions from the molecular/cellular level up), Pathophysiology, and more. Our programs have to prepare us to enter a variety of fills whereas your EMS programs prepare you for only one mindset, Emergency Medicine. Our programs have to be able to prepare us to be entry level in various specialties (Dialysis, OB/GYN, Med/Surg, Critical Care, Clinic). We are given the fundamental knowledge and understanding of the intricacies of the human body that most EMS providers lack, don't tell me an RN to Paramedic cannot be a good provider. As a matter of fact, I would have to say the reverse of that, MOST (Not All) paramedics that transition to RN can't cut it because they don't have the proper fundamental (basic education which you so readily preach) behind their practice.
 
What's humorous is I know far more crappy medics who spent a significant amount of time as a basic than those who didn't. The ones who were long-term basics learned bad habits by the bucketful.

The attitudes about lower level providers from the newer straight-through medics does often suck though. I think a lot of it's youth, some of it's never having been dumped on by a medic and a little of it is never having had anything "bad" happen on their watch.

My feeling, and that of most of my coworkers, is that the medic should be able to do anything as well as or better than the basic. If your going to give direction and provide correction than you better know what your talking about.

On a P/B truck, at the end of the day, the medic is responsible. Full stop. If I have an attitude at times, it's for that reason, not because I think a basic is less of a person.
 
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