Medics Describe Horror of Chimp Attack

[medic417]

Is everyone on this board so self righteous that they would never talk to the press and have never and will never participate in an interview like this? I highly doubt that's the case.

I would never talk to the media about any specific case. I get calls at my office frequently. I will do interviews regarding the current situation such as staffing, needs for new ambulances, when the public should call an ambulance, etc. As soon as reporter asks about the snake bite victim found in a tub of rattlesnakes I tell them sorry out respect for my patients privacy I will not discuss anything about that call. Now if the reporter asks can you provide insight as what the public should do if they encounter a rattlesnake and what to do if they get biten I will give them some information on that. But again no to anything in regards to the patient.

 

[firecoins]

I would never talk to the media about any specific case. I get calls at my office frequently. I will do interviews regarding the current situation such as staffing, needs for new ambulances, when the public should call an ambulance, etc. As soon as reporter asks about the snake bite victim found in a tub of rattlesnakes I tell them sorry out respect for my patients privacy I will not discuss anything about that call. Now if the reporter asks can you provide insight as what the public should do if they encounter a rattlesnake and what to do if they get biten I will give them some information on that. But again no to anything in regards to the patient.

what should people do if they enounter a tub full of rattlesnakes? can they still take a bath?

what was the name of the person you found in a tub of rattlesnakes? Was the scene safe for you to enter?

 

[medic417]

what should people do if they enounter a tub full of rattlesnakes? can they still take a bath?

what was the name of the person you found in a tub of rattlesnakes? Was the scene safe for you to enter?

If you have a tub full of rattlesnakes call all your friends. Get the grease warm and get ready for some delicious deep fried rattler. UMMM MMM good.

After eating the rattlers a nice warm bath is soothing.

No Comment

No comment as we do not discuss anything specific to the call.

 

[karaya]

The story of this woman just happened to register on the Paramedics gore meter and probably were just beside themselves wanting to talk about their patient and the media gave them that opportunity. Concern for the patient or familiy was probably not a thought. There is a term used in the FDs to describe this excited state but since this is a family style forum, I'll refrain from using it.

Vent, I sure hope you don't make sweeping jump to conclusion judgments with your patient's as you just did with the paramedics from the Stamford Emergency Medical Services. You seem to have a tendency to give hospitals a pass for talking to the media, but if a pre-hospital provider does, your ready to label them as gore mongers and boil them in oil. As a matter of fact, I find your constant condescending attitude toward EMS providers on this subject pompous and unprofessional for a woman of your education.

Your quoted statement above couldn't be any further from the truth to what events actually took place prior to the interview and during the interview.

So let's move on to some facts I've gathered so far. This afternoon I conducted some interviews of my own with a key person directly involved with the patient as well as the Associated Press interview.

First, it should be noted that Stamford Emergency Medical Services (SEMS) has an extremely close working relationship with the Stamford Hospital where the woman was taken and SEMS is the only EMS provider in Stamford.

The interviews took place several days after the incident and was coordinated by the SEMS Chief of Operations and SEMS Executive Director, who by the way herself is a health care attorney. This was jointly worked with SEMS close partner, Stamford Hospital. During the hospital interviews, the patient's family also participated.

Prior to granting the interview with the Associated Press, both the Chief of Operations and the Executive Director for SEMS met with their board of directors and obtained their approval as well. It should be noted that some of the SEMS board members also sit on the Stamford Hospital board.

It was made clear to the reporter that Captain Ackley would not go into any in depth detail to specific injuries. He would only discuss what he and the medics saw and their on scene experience. During the interview, the reporter did a follow-up question concerning the patient's eye injuries and Caption Ackley refused to discuss any more details as to her eye injury. That can be clearly seen in the interview his refusal to elaborate.

So you're attack, "this woman just happened to register on the Paramedics gore meter and probably were just beside themselves wanting to talk about their patient and the media gave them that opportunity" is completely unwarranted.

Vent, you and I clearly disagree on this topic now and in the past and I don't expect to change your views. Nor am I trying to. I have a great deal of admiration and respect for you and your work. All I attempting to do is to educate you to the facts of the case and perhaps you will consider the notion that not all paramedics are gore mongers looking for their 15 minutes of fame. And when their 15 minutes of fame does arrive, it can be handled in a proper and professional manner as the folks from Stamford Emergency Medical Services clearly demonstrated.

 

[AJ Hidell]

I don't find any of that to be particularly relevant. The question is not whether or not the statements were legal or authorized. The question is whether or not they were ethical, or positively served the interests of the patient. Regardless of legality, statements that do not positively serve the interests of the patient are unethical and should be avoided.

 

[karaya]

I don't find any of that to be particularly relevant. The question is not whether or not the statements were legal or authorized. The question is whether or not they were ethical, or positively served the interests of the patient. Regardless of legality, statements that do not positively serve the interests of the patient are unethical and should be avoided.

Completely your opinion, which I respect. But, it's okay for the hospital to discuss it with the media?

 

[Veneficus]

This discussion has definitely brought out something that EMS, hospitals, and other providers need to take a hard look at.

Clearly for the purpose of public support and relations, EMS has to have a visible presence. But unlike fire and Police departments do fall under the role of a healthcare provider, which very old traditions usually with the effect of law as well as sometimes specific laws, ethics, and professional oaths about privacy and confidentiality come into play.

My stance on this issue is probably a little more extreme than Vent's. aside from general remarks that really say nothing like "serious, critical, and guarded condition" absolutely nothing about the patient's condition or circumstances leading to it should be divulged to the public.

Obviously as a teaching instrument where identifying details are irrelevent or between care givers that is another issue.

I am not trying to curb the required freedom of the press, only support that healthcare providers should recuse themselves of being the ones making statements to the media. But that then begs “which media?” Trade journals? TV News? Where is the line drawn? I don’t know, but I would not speak to the media in anything but a case presentation, where all identifiers were removed, format that is not of much interest outside of medical circles.
I just hold dear that knowledge which I am given in trust, should remain in trust and there is no reason to ask for permission to make a statement, because there is no statement that needs to be made.

I am not singling out EMS. I know that hospitals, Drs, as well as other people make such statements, but I think it is just as much, if not more wrong for them as well.

What does that leave open for EMS to broadcast to get noticed? Maybe the almost non existant public health and safety aspects?

 

[AJ Hidell]

Completely your opinion, which I respect. But, it's okay for the hospital to discuss it with the media?

This isn't "HospitalLife.com". This is EMTlife.com. A discussion of hospital ethics is beyond the scope of this discussion. However, having significant hospital experience, I know that it is standard for a patient to be asked about his or her desires regarding publicity. If the patient wanted her condition to be discussed, then I would consider doing so within the context of that wish. But I would very seriously doubt that any physicians called a news conference without that release. And You have given us no information about whether she gave such a release to the hospital or to EMS.

 

[VentMedic]

Vent, I sure hope you don't make sweeping jump to conclusion judgments with your patient's as you just did with the paramedics from the Stamford Emergency Medical Services.

With all the famous boobs and weanies I have seen during my years in healthcare, I have not felt compelled to call a reporter. I must gain my patients' trust and stake my professionalism that I will protect the privacy of those that put their trust in me.

Completely your opinion, which I respect. But, it's okay for the hospital to discuss it with the media?

How often do you see hospitals disclosing information to the public? Even this case is now leaving the spotlight.

Our patients are also informed that their information will be used in data collection and certain medical cases will be presented for education purposes. However, great caution is taken to ensure that patient's identity is secure.

As a reporter I can see you have a very different agenda and it has little to do with patient care. You want good pictures to sell a juicy story. You gain the confidence of young EMS providers, many of whom have lax leadership, to get what you want. But, that is what makes you good at your media profession but not a good patient advocate.

 

[karaya]

This isn't "HospitalLife.com". This is EMTlife.com. A discussion of hospital ethics is beyond the scope of this discussion. However, having significant hospital experience, I know that it is standard for a patient to be asked about his or her desires regarding publicity. If the patient wanted her condition to be discussed, then I would consider doing so within the context of that wish. But I would very seriously doubt that any physicians called a news conference without that release. And You have given us no information about whether she gave such a release to the hospital or to EMS.

Of course no physician called for a press conference. With the high profile of this incident, the media went to the hospital as they did EMS. And yes, both hospitals and EMS obtained releases. And I'm not advocating EMS do anything different than what the hospitals do in releasing patient information to the media. The same standards should apply.

 

[medic417]

Of course no physician called for a press conference. With the high profile of this incident, the media went to the hospital as they did EMS. And yes, both hospitals and EMS obtained releases. And I'm not advocating EMS do anything different than what the hospitals do in releasing patient information to the media. The same standards should apply.

Not picking on you but on other sites you call yourself an ambulance chaser. That implies you do want to get information that would not (and in my opinion should not) normally be disclosed. I hate to say you battling to release patient information is biased as you are the media.

 

[karaya]

As a reporter I can see you have a very different agenda and it has little to do with patient care. You want good pictures to sell a juicy story. You gain the confidence of young EMS providers, many of whom have lax leadership, to get what you want. But, that is what makes you good at your media profession but not a good patient advocate.

Aw Vent, there you go being judgmental again. Actually now that you brought it up, all of my work is EMS related and is used in the EMS industry. And I don't have to prey on young paramedics with lax management. I spend a great deal of time traveling throughout the country riding with dozens of well know EMS providers and I'm well respected in the industry for my work. My work was recognized at last year's EMS Expo in Las Vegas as well in which I won an award.

I give out tons of my work every year pro bono for ACLS, PHTLS and PALS classes and a gob more that I can't remember the acronyms for. In addition, hundreds of my photos appear in over 15 paramedic, EMT and yes soon to be nursing text books. The very same books that are in classes today for their EMS programs. And I maintain a close working relationship with the authors as well. I'm currently involved in three of the largest paramedic text book publications and getting ready to begin work on two more releases this year.

In addition to EMS education books, I have over a dozen EMS organizations that contract to me for my work. NREMT and NAEMSE are two national examples of my clients. I'm a contributing photographer and writer for JEMS magazine as well.

So my work is a tad bit more focused on education than front page glorification. Yes, I may be "media", but I'm on your side of the fence and not the front page scoundrel you seem to make me for. It's all EMS baby!

 

[karaya]

Not picking on you but on other sites you call yourself an ambulance chaser. That implies you do want to get information that would not (and in my opinion should not) normally be disclosed. I hate to say you battling to release patient information is biased as you are the media.

No, that's just a joke about my line of work. Just like my signature below, EMS Paparazzi. I spend about 20 to 30 hours a week riding with EMS providers to obtain my images. I also travel throughout the United States as well for my images. A new text book gig that I have coming up is going to put me in Las Vegas (Clark County) riding with those folks for a few weeks.

I always obtain releases and I tend to be more conservative than I need to be, but sometimes with the patients condition it's not a good time to pull the camera. That's a shot I can get next week with a different patient. My work ethics is one reason I'm in such demand. My host providers feel very comfortable having me with them. I still get several invitations from providers for me to ride with them.

I hope this helps your query.

 

[VentMedic]

Aw Vent, there you go being judgmental again. Actually now that you brought it up, all of my work is EMS related and is used in the EMS industry.

I've seen your photos. You have a website full of stock photos on the internet. Some of them were taken in the back of an ambulance where a person should have some expectation of privacy with only healthcare providers and those immediately involved with their safety and heathcare present, not the media. If the patient doesn't sign the release, you were still present in an area that should be restricted so that personal information can flow freely. Yes, you may compare this to the times a teaching hospital records patients for educational purposes but those photos don't go up for sale on an internet website.

Again, you are the media. I am a healthcare professional and a patient advocate to see that my patient's privacy is protected while they are in my care. If the patient wants to talk to a reporter once care has been provided, that is their choice. Unless directly asked by the patient to say something I will not and even then my hospital would have our own public relations coordinator go over what I can and can not say. This also applied when I was working on a helicopter. That agency had the same rules but then many of our patients came from hospital contracts and we also respected the rules of the hospital for patient privacy. But again, they weren't much different than the Flight team's.

I always obtain releases and I tend to be more conservative than I need to be, but sometimes with the patients condition it's not a good time to pull the camera. That's a shot I can get next week with a different patient. My work ethics is one reason I'm in such demand. My host providers feel very comfortable having me with them. I still get several invitations from providers for me to ride with them.

Your hosts are not the patients. They are EMS providers who do enjoy the attention. Once the patient is in a moving truck with the EMT(P)s, you and your camera, what choice do the patients have? They may even feel obligated if not a little intimidated by their vulnerable state when they are asked to sign a release.

 

[ffemt8978]

I don't forsee this going anywhere but in circles.

Closed for twenty four hours.