Matt Walsh wrecks this dude who claims to be an EMT

[ChristopherM]

You are a liberal, and the "comfort and sensibilities of conservatives don’t matter to me at all." So, why should the "comfort and sensibilities" of a liberal matter to any non-liberals at all? Do you not see the hypocrisy you are displaying?

Are you kidding me? do you know how many gay and lesbian providers we have in EMS? Are you really calling all of them deeply right-wing?

Maybe if you were honest with your coworkers, you wouldn't feel so insecure around your coworkers. Or maybe if you tried to see things from their point of view you would actually find some areas of common ground.

Let me tell you about my old fire department... we made fun of white people and black people, single and married people, fat and skinny people, employed and unemployed, males and females. NY sports teams fans and Philly Sports teams fans, Jews and other religions, tall and short people smart and dumb people, old and young people... and just so there is no confusion, we weren't making fun of the public, but rather, our fellow firefighters. We treated members of the public with the utmost respect. We teased our coworkers, but we never did it maliciously, it was just what we did. And yes, we likely should have held weekly sensitivity training classes, but the camaraderie was there.

The walls you are putting up on your own: maybe you should try to go out for drinks after a shift, or share with your coworkers. And if they do something that does offend you, say something. Do you want to do your shift and go home? I can respect that, but if you are intentionally isolating yourself from others, and then complaining that you have to feel all alone and can't be honest, well, I think the issue might be found by looking in a mirror.

BTW, a good buddy of mine is gay. He's also a former Deputy Chief of his local VFD, a career paramedic in two urban cities, and a federal firefighter. Everyone knew he was gay, and since he did his job, no one cared. And yes, I have met his husband, he's met my family, and we have no issues. Painting everyone in EMS as right-wing and anti any group is just wrong.

I am not filing HR reports or trying to get anyone fired. I am not demanding sensitivity trainings. I am not stupid enough to say anything or cause an issue with working relationships. I have been in EMS a long time and get how this works.

 

[CCCSD]

You are a liberal, and the "comfort and sensibilities of conservatives don’t matter to me at all." So, why should the "comfort and sensibilities" of a liberal matter to any non-liberals at all? Do you not see the hypocrisy you are displaying?

I am not filing HR reports or trying to get anyone fired. I am not demanding sensitivity trainings. I am not stupid enough to say anything or cause an issue with working relationships. I have been in EMS a long time and get how this works.

I don’t think YOU “get it” at all…
You've certainly not “been in EMS long”.

 

[ChristopherM]

I don’t think YOU “get it” at all…
You've certainly not “been in EMS long”.

This is not a productive comment. I was wrong earlier to make broad statements about EMS culture in my frustration. I conceded the point. Otherwise I have discussed my experience specifically. I do not appreciate your suggestion that I am lying.

 

[ChristopherM]

It seems like this thread has outlived any point it ever had. Again I apologize for making overly broad comments in anger. I hope cis / straight folks consider that at least for my part I dont need to be liked or given any special treatment. I would just prefer that thread titles like this one be seen as unprofessional and overt transphobia (not black humor) to be unwelcome in a work setting.

 

[CCCSD]

It seems like this thread has outlived any point it ever had. Again I apologize for making overly broad comments in anger. I hope cis / straight folks consider that at least for my part I dont need to be liked or given any special treatment. I would just prefer that thread titles like this one be seen as unprofessional and overt transphobia (not black humor) to be unwelcome in a work setting.

So if you don’t like something, it shouldn’t be posted, because you are the qualifier. Life doesn't work that way. One person should not be powerful enough to suspend discussion just because they are “offended”.

 

[ChristopherM]

So if you don’t like something, it shouldn’t be posted, because you are the qualifier. Life doesn't work that way. One person should not be powerful enough to suspend discussion just because they are “offended”.

Your post makes no sense. I did not say that the post should be deleted or the OP banned. I said that intentionally misgendering our colleagues should be considered unprofessional. Additonally I discussed earlier that in my personal experience hateful comments about transgender people in particular is very common in EMS work places. This includes very crude discussions of patients. Others have pointed out that this is not a universal phenomenon. I think it is fair to say that it is unprofessional to hold such discussions openly at work. Nothing I have said limits discussion or speech beyond what employers already set. Should your freedom of speech also include the ability to post inflammatory statements here regarding ethnicity or another category? This is a private forum with rules of decorum and the entire discussion began around a snide "takedown of some dude who claims to be an EMT".

 

[DrParasite]

You are a liberal, and the "comfort and sensibilities of conservatives don’t matter to me at all." So, why should the "comfort and sensibilities" of a liberal matter to any non-liberals at all? Do you not see the hypocrisy you are displaying?

I see you skipped over me pointing out your hypocrisy....

I am not filing HR reports or trying to get anyone fired. I am not demanding sensitivity trainings.

No one is asking you to, nor implying that you are.

I am not stupid enough to say anything or cause an issue with working relationships. I have been in EMS a long time and get how this works.

Let me ask you a simply question... have you tried saying something? You say you have been in EMS a long time, so I am assuming your coworkers know you... do you think their opinion of you would change if they knew you were not a cis male?

I said that intentionally misgendering our colleagues should be considered unprofessional.

Now we are getting back into the definition of gender... this is a political discussion, and, as I am sure you know, some people change genders frequently. Also, Matt Walsh and many on the right see gender and sex as the same thing, as it has been for thousands of years, so when young liberals want to change the definition of gender to suit their new beliefs.

Also, humans, in general, are not good at change, so changing pronouns for a person can be a struggle, esp when those pronouns don't line up with their biological appearance. However, if you are my coworker, and you want to be called a certain name, a certain gender, or whatever, I do agree, I should be professional enough to respect your wishes. I'll probably slip up a few times (change is hard, and habits are hard to break), but I do agree that is the professional thing to do.

Additonally I discussed earlier that in my personal experience hateful comments about transgender people in particular is very common in EMS work places. This includes very crude discussions of patients. Others have pointed out that this is not a universal phenomenon.

Have you spoken up about it? No, you have silently let it continue, to the point that it bothers you, and now you feel like you can't be yourself around your coworkers. They might not realize it is offending you, or feel like what the are saying is offensive. If no one tells them that it's offensive, can you understand why they haven't changed their behavior?

I think it is fair to say that it is unprofessional to hold such discussions openly at work. Nothing I have said limits discussion or speech beyond what employers already set. Should your freedom of speech also include the ability to post inflammatory statements here regarding ethnicity or another category?

Why? It's out of the public view, they are still treating their patients appropriately, and no one has said they have an issue with what they are saying. Now, if someone has an issue, that's a different story.

This is a private forum with rules of decorum and the entire discussion began around a snide "takedown of some dude who claims to be an EMT".

This post was started by a trans person...

It sounds like you are unhappy with your coworkers, and, despite being in EMS for a long time, you haven't learned to advocate for yourself. That means speaking when someone does something that offends you. You don't even need to bring up your sexuality, you can say it's offensive to your religion, and you would appreciate if they didn't make those types of comments.

 

[ChristopherM]

I do not view my situation as mutable. You are likely correct that is naive to hope for a work environment where things like politics and religion are considered rude to discuss. I think that would be agreeable so that we could focus on the task at hand but again , unrealistic. I appreciate that you would show courtesy in respecting pronouns. I think that speaks volumes and reflects well on you. I think most serious well intentioned people would understand slip ups as they are only human. As for the OP and this thread I think it was ill advised to drop this hot potato in this fashion and then stay silent. At least for me it has been frustrating. Again not trying to ban anyone , just seems like a poor thread.

 

[Seirende]

@DrParasite are you perhaps conflating being intersex with being transgender?

 

[Summit]

Intersex is very rare. Intersex prevalence is a small fraction of a percent, it might generously round up to 0.1% aggregating all the different disorders and abnormalities that get grouped under Intersex (phenotype unclassifiable or not matching genotype) but it is probably closer to 0.01% than 0.1%.

 

[silver]

Now we are getting back into the definition of gender... this is a political discussion, and, as I am sure you know, some people change genders frequently. Also, Matt Walsh and many on the right see gender and sex as the same thing, as it has been for thousands of years, so when young liberals want to change the definition of gender to suit their new beliefs.

The majority of medical and psychological societies support defining gender as separate from biological sex with more and more literature demonstrating benefits with transitioning and gender affirmation. At what point does it not become a political discussion? Its hard to believe that these societies are just full of "young liberals."


(I really wanted to stay away from this thread as it's kinda pointless, but these are the only posts that have discussions left.)

 

[Seirende]

Also, the person who started this thread identifies as intersex....

This post was started by a trans person...

You can be both intersex and trans, but nothing about being intersex would imply identifying as trans. Obviously @Kavsuvb is the last word on their own identity and also does not owe us any breakdown of said identity, but I'm wondering if @DrParasite is mixing up not fitting easily into the cultural male/female binary with being trans.

@Summit I'm sure the percentage of people who are intersex is relevant to the conversation at hand somehow, but I am missing it. Would you be so kind as to catch me up with your line of thought?

 

[DrParasite]

@DrParasite are you perhaps conflating being intersex with being transgender?

possibly, and if I am, I do apologize for @Kavsuvb, as it wasn't meant to be disrespectful.

 

[ffemt8978]

The majority of medical and psychological societies support defining gender as separate from biological sex with more and more literature demonstrating benefits with transitioning and gender affirmation. At what point does it not become a political discussion? Its hard to believe that these societies are just full of "young liberals."


(I really wanted to stay away from this thread as it's kinda pointless, but these are the only posts that have discussions left.)

I'm curious as to if you have a source for your "majority of" claim.

Also, what about the emerging studies about gender transition treatment regret? (https://apnews.com/article/transgen...detransition-371e927ec6e7a24cd9c77b5371c6ba2b) Granted less than 1% is a small percentage, but it is not negligible.

 

[silver]

I'm curious as to if you have a source for your "majority of" claim.

Also, what about the emerging studies about gender transition treatment regret? (https://apnews.com/article/transgen...detransition-371e927ec6e7a24cd9c77b5371c6ba2b) Granted less than 1% is a small percentage, but it is not negligible.

In a quick 5 min search, all these societies define gender and biological sex to be different in their guidelines or statements.

American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
American Psychiatric Association
American Psychological Association
Endocrine Society

The WHO also defines separately.

 

[ffemt8978]

In a quick 5 min search, all these societies define gender and biological sex to be different in their guidelines or statements.

American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
American Psychiatric Association
American Psychological Association
Endocrine Society

The WHO also defines separately.

I never doubted there were societies supporting that position, I just questioned if it was the majority since I wasn't aware of anything stating that.

 

[silver]

I never doubted there were societies supporting that position, I just questioned if it was the majority since I wasn't aware of anything stating that.

I've been unable to find an authoritative medical or psychological body with a stake in the topic who disagrees with that definition.

 

[ffemt8978]

I've been unable to find an authoritative medical or psychological body with a stake in the topic who disagrees with that definition.

Fair enough.

 

[E tank]

In a quick 5 min search, all these societies define gender and biological sex to be different in their guidelines or statements.

American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
American Psychiatric Association
American Psychological Association
Endocrine Society

The WHO also defines separately.

Medical societies have long since stopped being free from ideological and cultural biases and influence. The prevailing wave of conventional wisdom in these guidelines and statements tilt pretty significantly more toward the ideologic than scientific. Serious, widespread attention hasn't even been given to this topic for more than 15 years as ACOG, as an example, didn't even hold a position on it within my time in the business.

This coupled with the fact that there are countless members (or non member specialists) of these societies that hold valid and sincere opinions contrary to these guidelines, I'd be hard pressed to take these statements as anything other than research informed opinion. This isn't in the same category as, say, the optimal time to have a labor epidural placed or the use of forceps for delivery or the use of SSRI's or MAOI's for a given disorder.

These are new, untested, controversial (and in my mind, way premature) endorsements of very murky and ambiguous territory. It's partly why health systems in Europe are dialing back their once enthusiastic embrace of gender affirming care.

If defining gender dysphoria as a function of a psychological decoupling of anatomic, physiologic biological sex from experiential consciousness/awareness, then there is no problem. That is a reality that exists. To then assert that there is a demonstrated best practice that involves permanent intervention/treatment in kids, that's another thing entirely.

 

[silver]

Medical societies have long since stopped being free from ideological and cultural biases and influence. The prevailing wave of conventional wisdom in these guidelines and statements tilt pretty significantly more toward the ideologic than scientific. Serious, widespread attention hasn't even been given to this topic for more than 15 years as ACOG, as an example, didn't even hold a position on it within my time in the business.

This coupled with the fact that there are countless members (or non member specialists) of these societies that hold valid and sincere opinions contrary to these guidelines, I'd be hard pressed to take these statements as anything other than research informed opinion. This isn't in the same category as, say, the optimal time to have a labor epidural placed or the use of forceps for delivery or the use of SSRI's or MAOI's for a given disorder.

These are new, untested, controversial (and in my mind, way premature) endorsements of very murky and ambiguous territory. It's partly why health systems in Europe are dialing back their once enthusiastic embrace of gender affirming care.

If defining gender dysphoria as a function of a psychological decoupling of anatomic, physiologic biological sex from experiential consciousness/awareness, then there is no problem. That is a reality that exists. To then assert that there is a demonstrated best practice that involves permanent intervention/treatment in kids, that's another thing entirely.

Not sure how this changes anything or contradicts what I said. The definition of gender isn't something that a political faction wanted to change, but rather based on interpretation of modern research (over past 60ish years). Support by major medical societies demonstrates my point that it isn't merely political ideologies fighting.