Massachusetts EMT's Suspension (List)

[mikeN]

Maybe I'm playing devil's advocate here and hate that some of my close friends did this, but some of these people were amazing EMT's and medics. Some took shortcuts and some had personal things going on in their lives where they couldn't take off from work to take a refresher. Also it is screwed up when your scheduling department pretty much tells you tough :censored::censored::censored::censored: because you no one can cover your shifts to take these courses.
Whatever, Mass OEMS KNEW this was happening the whole time.

 

[DrParasite]

Some took shortcuts and some had personal things going on in their lives where they couldn't take off from work to take a refresher.

BS flag!!!!! it's their responsibility to do it. They knew it. they knew what the requirements were. if it's required for your job, don't take a shortcut. i believe you have 2-3 years until you need to recert, you are telling me they couldn't find any time during those 2-3 years to take a course, that was required as a condition of their job? Where are your priorities if you can't find the time, and how come ensuring you have a job isn't at the top of that list?

Also it is screwed up when your scheduling department pretty much tells you tough :censored::censored::censored::censored: because you no one can cover your shifts to take these courses.

oh boo hoo!! everyone's scheduler sucks. mine does, as does the scheduler at my former employer. whether it's taking vacation time, doing a switch with someone on the opposite tour, or traveling a little bit to take THE REQUIRED CLASS TO KEEP YOUR JOB, we all to what we have to do. Blaming someone else is just wrong and placing the blame on the wrong person.

Whatever, Mass OEMS KNEW this was happening the whole time.

BS flag!!!!! they might have suspected, they might have had a hint, but I am confident they did not know. If they did, than Mass is even more corrupt than NJ, and the entire OEMS staff should be fired and their operations should be outsourced to another state until new people can be hired.

I don't know if I would say every person involved should permanently lose their certs, but I think a 2 year suspension should be good (and I wish every agency would fire those were who were involved). None of them will ever get hired by another company in Mass. and even if they were good emts and medics, they still intentionally defrauded the state. willingly and knowingly they received credit for a course that they did not attend. There needs to be real consequences for these types of actions.

Those who committed the crime, now needs to suffer the consequences. And they won't get an once of sympathy from me

 

[1badassEMT-I]

Maybe I'm playing devil's advocate here and hate that some of my close friends did this, but some of these people were amazing EMT's and medics. Some took shortcuts and some had personal things going on in their lives where they couldn't take off from work to take a refresher. Also it is screwed up when your scheduling department pretty much tells you tough :censored::censored::censored::censored: because you no one can cover your shifts to take these courses.
Whatever, Mass OEMS KNEW this was happening the whole time.

Still it is sad they did what they did. However it was still wrong!

 

[medicdan]

Whatever, Mass OEMS KNEW this was happening the whole time.

Mass OEMS functions with 4.5 FTEs. The person who's responsibility is Con-Ed and EMT Training is not an EMT and has never been, is not an educator and has never been, and has a work background as a corpsman in the Navy. Um...?

OEMS doesn't process any Con-Ed class applications or completed rosters between November and March/April every year, because they need the staff to handle recertification... They tell instructors to expect a 3-4 week turnaround time for class approval, and that we cannot advertise or hold classes until approved by the state. So... when I submit an application in mid-Nov for a class in Jan... and never hear back, should I hold the class, knowing I won't get my approval until April? What does that say about education?

 

[beandip4all]

Maybe I'm playing devil's advocate here and hate that some of my close friends did this, but some of these people were amazing EMT's and medics.

Look- I'm sorry that this happened to your friends, and I'm sure they're not "all bad" /entirely evil people either, however there are tons and tons of AMAZING EMTS AND MEDICS in this country and in that particular region who jump through all the proper hoops to stay certified and don't take short cuts.

Certifications and CEs are a PITA, but the fact of the matter is that they are a significant component of our job. When I switched careers into this industry, I couldn't believe the sheer amount of work (and $$$) it was to become certified. Livescans, county cert, national reg, ambo license, DM51 form, etc and then staying on top of all that as they routinely expire! IT SUCKS!! But, there are so many wonderful aspects of this career that you suck it up and get them done. In fact, I would almost venture that the PITA certification and recertification process is a good barrier-to-entry to weed out those among us who are NOT organized enough/willing to do the work.

There are *plenty* of properly certified EMTs and medics- every bit as skilled and hardworking as your friends are- out there waiting to take the jobs of those who couldn't be bothered to maintain their certs. And I'm sorry but this

some had personal things going on in their lives

is BS. EVERYONE, at some point has "personal things" and various crap going on in their life that must be dealt with, and they still manage to get their mandatory stuff done- (or, they take necessary sabbatical and then recertify through proper channels when they come back).

Also:

where they couldn't take off from work to take a refresher. Also it is screwed up when your scheduling department pretty much tells you tough :censored::censored::censored::censored: because you no one can cover your shifts to take these courses.

Oh please!! ::rolls eyes:: Do you have any idea of the sheer volume and variety of CE offerings out there? They have night courses, weekend intensives, afternoons, online ones... there are a plethora of options to work with anyone's schedule. Particular course doesn't work for your schedule? Put in some friggin effort and another one that does.

Finally, this:

Whatever, Mass OEMS KNEW this was happening the whole time.

is the worst logic of all. Even *if* this is accurate, having a higher authority who is aware of something that is wrong and turn a blind eye doesn't make doing it any less wrong. Perhaps it is time for you to re-calibrate your Ethics barometer.

I still maintain my position that all those involved deserve to permanently lose their certs and their jobs.

 

[feldy]

Mass HAS known for a while that this has been going on but had a hard time building a case. Our OEMS does not have a big budget which is why is costs so much to get trained and retrained. there was a case a few years ago involving a PD who ran EMS and they were shut down (EMS no the PD). A Few people who faked their certs is a big deal but i think (and do not know for sure) that it would be easier for the local companies to deal with it and terminate on their own. But with the widespread of the problem the state had to step in. (also because some places were allowing it).

Also i agree if you cannot find time to do continuing ed...then maybe you should not be in a field where it is required. Maybe take it upon yourself and use youre days off to do this (i know i cant believe i said work on a day off) but really. One day's pay is a lot better penalty than having to retrain for an entire new field of work.

 

[bstone]

I just did a Basic refresher in MA. It was 95% online with a 4 hour practical review (which was really 2 hours). It's an approved refresher by both the MA OEMS and NREMT. Any claim that they didn't have time is BS.

 

[feldy]

I just did a Basic refresher in MA. It was 95% online with a 4 hour practical review (which was really 2 hours). It's an approved refresher by both the MA OEMS and NREMT. Any claim that they didn't have time is BS.

just curious but where did u have to go for the practicals refresher in MA? Ill most likely ending up taking mine in Louisiana where i go to school and transfer them next summer.

 

[bstone]

just curious but where did u have to go for the practicals refresher in MA? Ill most likely ending up taking mine in Louisiana where i go to school and transfer them next summer.

I used these folks:
http://www.mecta.com/

Yeah, I had to go to the practical with them in MA. But I live here, so it's ok.

 

[butgorthegraceofgod]

I just did a Basic refresher in MA. It was 95% online with a 4 hour practical review (which was really 2 hours). It's an approved refresher by both the MA OEMS and NREMT. Any claim that they didn't have time is BS.

Then according to OEMS this is an invalid refresher because you did not stay for the required 4 hours.

 

[bstone]

Then according to OEMS this is an invalid refresher because you did not stay for the required 4 hours.

I invite you to report this to the OEMS.

 

[butgorthegraceofgod]

I invite you to report this to the OEMS.

just saying there are alot of high horses around here. some of the cases were exactly that, classes that took place but did not make the require hours.

 

[Veneficus]

Yeah, you siad you did not turn in any documentation.I said, employers have a responsibility to ensure workers are all documented. If you were meaning state, the state has a different policy where they don't want paperwork until an audit is issued. Seems there is a bit of confusion....:blush:

This is how recert works in Ohio,

You get a letter that has 2 check boxes, one says "I did complete the con ed requirements" one says "I did not"

You check the appropriate box and send it in.

If you filled out "did not" you don't get recert.

If you filled out "I did" you get a recert.

But the rub is that 10% of all "I did's" get audited. If you get audited and you fail to provide the required documentations in a timely fasion, (I think 2-3 weeks if I am not mistaken) then you lose your cert for fraud.

I never knew anyone personally who got caught, but I understand it is next to impossible to get your cert back after that without a very expensive process and lawyer. (while you are not working in EMS)

I just send in copies of my documentation with the form everytime to save the hassle, so I have no idea if I have ever been audited.

 

[feldy]

I invite you to report this to the OEMS.

yes i agree, i know we all hate sitting in class for four hours but and extra two hours vs potentially getting your cert taken away is something i wouldnt mess with especially when OEMS is most likely over the next few years going to go through and audit all courses to make sure they are keeping to the standards of OEMS.

Also keep in mind that you just openly admitted to not fully completing the required hours (while i know you expected to do so and are at no fault). However i would strongly suggest to be careful what you say here. It would really suck to get your ticket pulled.

 

[bstone]

yes i agree, i know we all hate sitting in class for four hours but and extra two hours vs potentially getting your cert taken away is something i wouldnt mess with especially when OEMS is most likely over the next few years going to go through and audit all courses to make sure they are keeping to the standards of OEMS.

Also keep in mind that you just openly admitted to not fully completing the required hours (while i know you expected to do so and are at no fault). However i would strongly suggest to be careful what you say here. It would really suck to get your ticket pulled.

I would be interested if the OEMS would fault me for failing to continue to sit there for an additional 2 hours when that would entail sitting in an empty room by myself, long after the instructor and training materials left. I made every effort to comply fully with all laws and rules.

 

[bstone]

just saying there are alot of high horses around here. some of the cases were exactly that, classes that took place but did not make the require hours.

They did? Every news article I read on the topic clearly stated that no classes took place but lists and certs were issued for recertification. You have information to the contrary?

 

[butgorthegraceofgod]

I would be interested if the OEMS would fault me for failing to continue to sit there for an additional 2 hours when that would entail sitting in an empty room by myself, long after the instructor and training materials left. I made every effort to comply fully with all laws and rules.

during interviews oems told people that they knew the class did not make the hours and they should have reported the class to oems. whether the instructor dismisses the class early they have no authority to do so as the class has to go the required hours to be valid. and really you mean maybe the full story was in the paper holy cow can't believe that.

 

[bstone]

during interviews oems told people that they knew the class did not make the hours and they should have reported the class to oems. whether the instructor dismisses the class early they have no authority to do so as the class has to go the required hours to be valid. and really you mean maybe the full story was in the paper holy cow can't believe that.

Source? I did not read that in any of the news articles. Please provide quotes and proof.

 

[feldy]

i would hope that anyone who went to an acredited class but was released early would not get punished that does not seem fair...if they do not allow it to pass then at least get your money back b/c we all know that CEUs and licenses are really expenisive in MA and would hate to lose both and get nothing.

I myself have been let out of class early a few times but it was most likely b/c of a test that we were given x amount of time and i finished before time was up. Testing is part of the 120+ hours of the course so i see nothing wrong with that.

 

[medicdan]

As an instructor, if I complete the cognitive and psycho-motor objectives that I have submitted to OEMS, and they have approved before the allotted class end time, I spend the rest of the time answering questions and reviewing other EMS material or subjects. Students stay in the classroom for the entire allotted time, but we may not spend the entire time on approved materials. I then know for the next time either to add material and objectives to my courses, or decrease the amount of credit approved for.

With all that said, the approval process for Con-Ed in MA is a complete and utter joke.