Let's Talk Monitors!

I personally hate the Zolls with a passion, biggest peice of garbage ever made.
Click to expand...

Funny...I feel the same way about the LP12. The 15 is a slight improvement but I miss my Zoll.

I have seen it put through more abuse.........
Click to expand...

My partner left ours sitting on the roof of our unit (an SUV 'chase truck') and pulled away. I saw something (turned out to be our Zoll) cartwheel off the roof as we passed 25 mph. Other than some scratches and a broken lead connector, it worked fine. By comparison, I've seen a Lifepak 12 sat down hard (read as: dropped from less than a foot above the ground) and it blinked off and would not turn back on. The joke was that our LP12s spent more time being sent in for maintenance for all the problems we had with them (failure to charge, internal shorts, etc) than they spent on our trucks.

As far as downsides to the Zoll, the ergonomics aren't there
Click to expand...

What is odd is that I always thought the Zoll monitor/defibs had much better ergonomics....

suspect that like many things, you develop a preference based on what you're used to, and everything else seems different.
Click to expand...

....despite having originally trained on nothing but Lifepak equipment (Lifepak 300 for AED, then the LP5, LP10, and LP12).

The CCT monitor is very impressive, if heavy.
Click to expand...

Compared to a standard LP12? The M-series CCT is 17.2 lbs if you don't go with the paddles. The LP12 (with the SLA battery) weighs 16.1 lbs. It's not that much of a difference really, although both of them are quite heavy. In my opinion, the M-series is a lot easier to carry than the LP12 which is best used as a crash cart monitor/defib. Your mileage may vary...
 
In my time working and in school, I have used Phillips, LP10, LP12, LP15, and Welch-Allyn. Love the Phillips, like the LP12s and LP15s, can tolerate the LP10, and hate Welch-Allyn with a burning, festering passion.
 
Having used everything from the LP4 on up, and Zolls.... my favorite is still the LP11 with 12 lead.

We currently use the LP15, and have since Oct 09. Personally, I don't see much of a difference from the 12 to justify an upgrade. It does just everything the 12 did.... just a little more faster ( like the telementry, it does upload the 12 lead lightning fast to the ED ). The 12 took about 20-30 seconds to transmit that bugger.

ZOLL holds the proprietary rectilinear biphasic waveform defib, and LP has the truncated waveform. Each company claims thiers is the bomb-diggity, but knowing a few things about the sine waves and physiology as well as doing some homework and studying on the comparison..... the rectilinear is superior, and ZOLL knows it. That is why 200j is the dose across the board for ZOLL. And LP still recommends 200J-300J-360J with thier biphasic machines.

Those phillips are supposed to have some great ECG filters that are exclusive to them, to include filtering out the chest compression interference so you can see the baseline with interruption.

Speaking of uninterupted CPR... they are doing studies now with performing defibrillation during active chest compressions. We have been double gloving without any probs. We'll see if this trend takes on, or if the risks our wiegh the benefits.

:-/
 
We just had our in-service on the LP15 as part of CME. They're hitting the trucks by the end of the summer. To me it's just a well refined LP12. So for ease of use compared to our previous monitors I have no issues. I do like the addition of the metronome (saves me from coaching FF's who are first responding) and the improved screen and connectors, but it's nothing to write home about. My service didn't opt for the SPCO or methemoglobin options.

I trained on both the Zoll M and E series in school as well as the LP12. Of the three I preferred to LP12 for ease of use. I heard fantastic things about the Phillips, but have never used one myself.
 
usafmedic45 said:
Funny...I feel the same way about the LP12. The 15 is a slight improvement but I miss my Zoll.



My partner left ours sitting on the roof of our unit (an SUV 'chase truck') and pulled away. I saw something (turned out to be our Zoll) cartwheel off the roof as we passed 25 mph. Other than some scratches and a broken lead connector, it worked fine. By comparison, I've seen a Lifepak 12 sat down hard (read as: dropped from less than a foot above the ground) and it blinked off and would not turn back on. The joke was that our LP12s spent more time being sent in for maintenance for all the problems we had with them (failure to charge, internal shorts, etc) than they spent on our trucks.



What is odd is that I always thought the Zoll monitor/defibs had much better ergonomics....



....despite having originally trained on nothing but Lifepak equipment (Lifepak 300 for AED, then the LP5, LP10, and LP12).



Compared to a standard LP12? The M-series CCT is 17.2 lbs if you don't go with the paddles. The LP12 (with the SLA battery) weighs 16.1 lbs. It's not that much of a difference really, although both of them are quite heavy. In my opinion, the M-series is a lot easier to carry than the LP12 which is best used as a crash cart monitor/defib. Your mileage may vary...
Click to expand...

Hi 5, bro....hi 5. Amen to all of that an' more about the Zoll.
 
Yikes the volunteer fire/rescue dept.that I belong to and am going ALS for just got an ALS grant and is looking at monitors and is considering the phillips. The commissioners seem to like the Phillips just fine as buying the two monitors with all the bells and whistles will thousands cheaper than ZOll and about $17,000 less than the LP 15's we actually want. I'm going to do my best to bring these issues to there attention, hopefully they will be totally wowed by LP demo and I won't have to worry. I doubt it though. They have big red truck on the mind though as we are also looking at a new rescue/pumper. I think we all know what's going to get the funds in this case.
 
citizensoldierny said:
They have big red truck on the mind though as we are also looking at a new rescue/pumper. I think we all know what's going to get the funds in this case.
Click to expand...

Case in point for why Fire does not have the necessary mindset to run EMS. (Not that they couldn't, but that they currently do not.)

Sorry, bad thread jack. I'll attempt to redeem:

I was talking with another medic at work about the Phillips and they said that apparently the Phillips has not been drop tested or put through the other various tortures it's likely to encounter in EMS. Can't confirm this, but might be worth further investigation if your service is considering new monitors.
 
You can not/will not beat the toughness, ease, and and battery life of a 15. I love it.
Would give up my first born for another one.
 
I trained on LP10, 12, and Zoll M-series. Of those, I actually like the M-Series, without the paddles. I played with their CCT version for a bit and also liked it. Now if we're talking pure (no defib) monitors, I also like the Propaq Encore series...
 
We use LP12's. They're alright. I like the sidestream ETCO2 monitoring. I LOVE LOVE LOVE how it's built in to our nasal cannulas. It's amazing. I don't like the size/bulk/heft. I don't like the spinning dial.

Used Zoll M-Series before. Much more compact, felt a lot lighter. I could work the buttons much faster than the dial on the LP12. Only one battery, it had to be changed much more often than the LP12 (even when charging in between calls). I liked the EKG cables on the Zoll much more...the LP12's cables and I seem to disagree often (being too short, in the way, etc).

Haven't used a Phillips monitor yet.
 
redcrossemt said:
I personally love the "ergonomics" of the LP12/15. It's easy to use, layout makes sense, cables and hoses route easy. Rolls of paper may be annoying, but the printer feeds good. Battery performance has always been ridiculous, but is supposed to be better with the new batteries for the 15.

Honestly though, I've had the best performance from Zoll and would call them the overall best solution. Filtering is the best with the least artifact. The 12-lead analysis (if you use it) is the best. The CCT monitor is very impressive, if heavy. 120-volt charging on the monitor is nice. We use the E series for our rescue trucks and I enjoy the "filtering" of CPR out of my ECG as well as the real-time CPR help. Anecdotally, I am sure we get capture much more often with pacing, and I'll venture out there and say that we have had a few more cases of successful defibrillation. Of course, that's comparing Zoll biphasic posterior-anterior to Lifepak monophasic anterior-anterior, along with many CPR changes.

As far as downsides to the Zoll, the ergonomics aren't there. The M has always been hard to carry. We now use the E and I've seen the R. Both are better for carrying, but the buttons and layout still don't make sense. The external EtCO2 detector isn't my favorite. Hope you don't ever lose or break that cable! Z-fold paper isn't my ideal solution, but our newer ones have less problems than ever.
Click to expand...

Almost my exact opinion. I've used Zoll Es, Ms, and the Lifepack 12. At the service that was LP12 exclusive, the battery life was consistently atrocious no matter what. The LPs were stupidly heavy and bulky for the amount they accomplished, when they were in service. The Zoll, on the other hand was always ready for use, and compact enough to be of no notice when carried.

Also, I actually like the Zolls a bit better than the LPs when it comes to ergonomics. I suspect this is because the service with them was kind enough (must have been a slip up) to purchase mounts for all the mods so that we'd have no problems. Mighty kind of them. The button layout was also better, in my opinion (I'm no fan of the LP GUI), and made things happen faster.

I've never used anything else.
 
We have two 6 year old Zoll M CCT. We are evaluating LP15's. At first I was thinking "hey 6 years is pretty old". I sure as heck don't own a 6 year old computer. But I'm now getting the impression that their service life is a LOT longer than 6 years. How many years do you expect to get good service out of a front line (not backup) unit?

Also, we were able to use the bluetooth in the LP15 to get the ekg and all vitals imported directly into our pcr. While that was "cool" and I suppose it can improve our run reports, I'm not sure it's worth the money just for that new feature. How many of you electronically import data from your defibs?
 
Simusid,

I know that Wake County EMS in North Carolina replaces their monitors every five years, which seems like a waste to me. They're ditching their LP 12s for LP15s after a trial of several different models.
 
Simusid said:
We have two 6 year old Zoll M CCT. We are evaluating LP15's. At first I was thinking "hey 6 years is pretty old". I sure as heck don't own a 6 year old computer. But I'm now getting the impression that their service life is a LOT longer than 6 years. How many years do you expect to get good service out of a front line (not backup) unit?

Also, we were able to use the bluetooth in the LP15 to get the ekg and all vitals imported directly into our pcr. While that was "cool" and I suppose it can improve our run reports, I'm not sure it's worth the money just for that new feature. How many of you electronically import data from your defibs?
Click to expand...

LP12s can hardwire a connection to the tablets I've seen (EKG, vitals, etc), the Zolls can do it with either a hardwire or BT. Not sure about others though
 
LP12 are also Bluetooth capable.

We replace monitors about every 6-7 years. This is for a busy system. We take them in on every call and thats 80-90k calls a year. They do take the abuse well.
 
Our Zoll E-series are bluetooth equipped and we're working on implementing ECG and vital signs transfer to our tablets.

Average service life of our monitors is about 6-8 years.
 
I find the battery performance to be OK on lifepak 12's.

The other night used one for an arrest. It was on for about 30 minutes, including delivering 10 shocks, and still had some juice left over at the end.
 
Lifepak 15

Our service has 3 lifepak 15's with everything except the rainbow monitor due to cost factor, but I understand it is now an addon when we are ready. A little durabilty info, during the demo from the rep she was showing us durability by dropping it onto floor from approx 5ft with no issue, but then our guys asked her to roll it down approx 20 concrete steps onto a concrete floor while running, and she agreed but with telling us worse thing would be the paper holder door would pop open. She was correct that was it, she closed the door and printed without an issue, that was impressive, No other vendor would even consider that. We also left demo out in severe thunder storm and in standing water without an issue. I have had a Zoll go belly up carrying it in the rain.
We had our medics take a poll after demoing all 3 ALS defibs (Zoll, Phillips, Lifepak 15) and it was about a 70/30% for the lifepak. Zoll got 0%. With both hospital ER's using lifepak 12s and our Physio Rep working with us we got the Defib of choice. FYI Physio was very knowledgeable with the equipment and its functions.
Our guys are very happy with them in the field.

Hope this helps.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top