KED vs. Spineboard

PoeticInjustice said:
NREMT also says everybody needs high flow o2.
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Actually if you look at the skill sheets for NREMT medical and trauma it says "Appropriate oxygen therapy".
 
firefite said:
Actually if you look at the skill sheets for NREMT medical and trauma it says "Appropriate oxygen therapy".
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What about the NREMT test? Unless they've changed it, that's a pretty common correct answer on the test. Kudos for them fixing two skill sheets though...
 
PoeticInjustice said:
What about the NREMT test? Unless they've changed it, that's a pretty common correct answer on the test. Kudos for them fixing two skill sheets though...
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As for the test I do not know. My college never taugh high flow for everyone so I haven't noticed a change.
 
exodus said:
Why do you need the LSB with a KED? Just as an extrication tool?
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In our old protocols it said that a LSB was required for true spinal immobilization.

As for our new protocols.... Well they don't state anything at saying that a LSB or a KED or a C-collar is needed for spinal immobilization. It just says "establish, maintain, and insure mechanical spinal immobilization as clinically indicated..."

I have still not seen anything in our protocols about the KED at all.
 
PoeticInjustice said:
Just went through the manufacturer's manual. Never once did it say that the ked HAD to be used on a lsb.
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No it does not explicitly state that, but it does say it is for short body transfer, and it does contain a section of transfer to a lsb.
 
Yeah, from the car to the cot would be a short body transfer. I wouldn't attempt to carry a patient off a long off-road trail using just a ked. It also states that it is the responsibility of EMS personnel to assess the patient and determine the most appropriate procedures to use.
 
With zero explanation why. There is nothing in the whole user manual explaining why a LSB must be used. And every time it is mentioned it seems to be just a means of getting them on the gurney. I see nothing wrong with using a KED alone. Leaving the legs unsecured results in very little spinal movement. Especially when you consider that having the knees bent actually provides a more comfortable anatomic alignment. More comfort = less wiggling around. Lie flat and test it out yourself, moving the legs does not produce that much spinal motion.
 
Does anyone have protocols that actually say that the KED can be used as a spinal immobilization device?
 
Mine just say to take appropriate spinal precautions when necessary. It never mentions either device.
 
PoeticInjustice said:
Mine just say to take appropriate spinal precautions when necessary. It never mentions either device.
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Sme with my new protocols. I sent an e-mail out so I should find out if it can be used in my county or not.
 
TV has been teaching pts for years that bad mva = lab, collar and big orange things next to your ears. Feeling like they are getting the treatment they expect has a calming, reassuring effect on a otherwise scared person.
 
The reason there are no spine boards or KED analogues in hospitals is that they are a prehosptial measures and prehospital EMS workers are using prehospital measures, not hospitals.

KED's and any spine boards are splints, splints are for patient movement when that movement could cause more pain and/or injury, like during auto extrication. EMS employers went overboard (pun unintended) and started using them for everything.

The trouble with EMS is this lowest common denominator sweeping generalization BS. On all sides of the fence.
 
Just got an email back from my county. The email said that "you can use whatever will immobilize the spine. LSB, KED, scoop stretcher, and vacuum splint are all acceptable options."

I was actually truly impressed with the content of the email that was sent back to me.
 
firefite said:
Just got an email back from my county. The email said that "you can use whatever will immobilize the spine. LSB, KED, scoop stretcher, and vacuum splint are all acceptable options."

I was actually truly impressed with the content of the email that was sent back to me.
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That's pretty impressive. Almost like an admission that none of it actually makes a difference :P
 
EpiEMS said:
That's pretty impressive. Almost like an admission that none of it actually makes a difference :P
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That is hardly an admission of anything other than immobilize.
 
I use KED's when I'm out odd spine boards and when my C-Spine pt can't breathe laying supine.
 
We non-supine breathers thank you. Truly.
 
firefite said:
Just got an email back from my county. The email said that "you can use whatever will immobilize the spine. LSB, KED, scoop stretcher, and vacuum splint are all acceptable options."

I was actually truly impressed with the content of the email that was sent back to me.
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I've just recently stumbled upon a study that compared the effectiveness of immobilization of LSB with a relatively new model of a scoop stretcher.

This scoop strecher model is basically a mix between LSB and "normal" scoop stretchers and is spreading around here pretty quickly, whereas KED and LSB have never been widely used or accepted. Vacuum splints are by far the mostly used equipment for spinal immobilization (and basically every other more severe traumatic injury).

In the study* comparing LSB with the "new" scoop stretcher, they found out that the scoop stretcher significantly decreased movement levels on the patients spine. (Imho not that surprising, as the study was funded by Ferno, the manufacturer of the scoop stretcher)

But then again i have never heard about a documented case of spinal injury following immobilization or patient movement.

*can't post links yet. pubmed: "Comparison of the Ferno Scoop Stretcher with the long backboard for spinal immobilization." for Abstract and Full Text
 
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