Is suggesting medication allowed?

I guarente. That you, as a basic or even a medic can not give direction to take an OTC. Period. Go ask any pharmacist if any tech can legally "recommend" ANY medication OTC or RX and they"ll tell you no. What I pulled from the law was only a fraction of the multitude of pages of pharmacy law. If you want to find out if a basic or medic can "recommend" or "consult" on a medication. Check your local standing protocol.
 
Sigh...

first off, I don't answer to pharmacists, nor do pharmacists make the rules about what an EMT can or can't do.

Secondly, if you can find where I wrote that I was directing anyone to take anything, please post it.

Third, I don't need to check with any standing protocol to know that if a person asks me for my opinion I can give it. There's a difference between offering an opinion and dispensing a dangerous drug. If someone asks me if I like Benadryl, I can most assuredly say what I think.

The laws that govern pharmacist technicians don't apply to EMT's. Nor do the ones that govern pharmacists.

When asked, you quoted a source that only pertains to rules governing pharmacists, I don't really care how much more of those rules you can quote or cut and paste as they don't apply to me or to any other EMT.

They may very well apply to you since you stated that you're a Pharmacy Technician, that's all well and good but that doesn't mean that you or any other Pharmacy Technician can mandate what I can or can't discuss with a patient.

Please feel free to continue posting irrelevant rules, I'm done, you may have the last word.
 
John E said:
Secondly, if you can find where I wrote that I was directing anyone to take anything, please post it.
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Would you accept that the difference between suggesting, recommending, and directing a patient to take an over the counter medicine from the patient perspective in a patient-provider relationship is a very fine line?
 
I used to work occupational medicine, and we were responsible for OTC medications. The industry regulations state that no worker can take a medication without first clearing it with the on site medic, unless they have a MDs note on file with the company. So if you have a headache, or a cold, or a cough, you have go to see the medic. This was to prevent some heavy machine operator from taking a bunch of Nyquil or something before going on shift. It was essentially another safety mechanism to make sure the workers were not impaired in any way, either by the medication, or because they were too sick to work and trying to hide it.

While working in this setting, I as a Paramedic routinely "prescribed" OTC medications to patients. They could name request things, or they could say "I have a cough and a fever, what can you give me" and I would grab the meds. I could not recommend they do anything outside of the manufacturers recommended dosage except for specific cases that were pre-approved (eg Ibuprofen 800mg for pain).

I worked both alone, with other paramedics and with EMTs doing this. The paramedics were the only people allowed to dispense the medication if it wasn't asked for by name. If someone came in and said "I have a headache, can I have some tylenol?" the EMT was allowed to give it to them. They could not choose a medication for the patient, but the paramedics could.

Anyway, that being said, I would advise any EMT B to check with their MD sponsor on their feelings on the subject before suggesting any OTC medication when acting in an official capacity. Whether you think you are or not, you would be opening yourself up to a lot of issues, especially if your MD isn't willing to back you up because you were suggesting things without him having a clue.

It's one thing to tell your sister "Yeah, mucinex works really well" and another to tell the same thing to a patient who called 911.
 
John E said:
Secondly, if you can find where I wrote that I was directing anyone to take anything, please post it.

Third, I don't need to check with any standing protocol to know that if a person asks me for my opinion I can give it. There's a difference between offering an opinion and dispensing a dangerous drug. If someone asks me if I like Benadryl, I can most assuredly say what I think.

The laws that govern pharmacist technicians don't apply to EMT's. Nor do the ones that govern pharmacists.

When asked, you quoted a source that only pertains to rules governing pharmacists, I don't really care how much more of those rules you can quote or cut and paste as they don't apply to me or to any other EMT.

They may very well apply to you since you stated that you're a Pharmacy Technician, that's all well and good but that doesn't mean that you or any other Pharmacy Technician can mandate what I can or can't discuss with a patient.

Please feel free to continue posting irrelevant rules, I'm done, you may have the last word.
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The key word here is I. If you... as a basic.. Recommend/Consult/Tell/(insert adjective here) someone what "TO" take then its (99% sure )illegal and you are liable. If someone comes up to the rig and asks you... "hey my hand is swollen from a bee sting, what can I do for it" and you Reply, "take some benadryl". YOU are now a. On the hook for a lawsuit. and b. are (once again 99% sure) illegally recommending a medication based on NO medical History or Allergies. heck... they may not have any history or NKDA but... then UH OH... they have an allergic reaction to you the red dye in the benadryl. Or how bout a sickle cell anemia patient... and you recommend ASA and... BAM... a bleeder.

Now...Saying to a PT ... If I had your symptoms.... I would take (x and y medication)... your in the clear. But telling a PT what to take.... NO matter if your a Basic/Rx tech/ Phlebotamist/ RRT/ or anything but a Nurse/Doctor/RPH... your not allowed.

And finally... Don't get all High and Mighty thinking that your so far superior than the rest of us. Yeah, sure, I've been in Pharmacy for 4 1/2 years and, Yeah I have a tech license. I sure as heck am not a pharmacist and I'm definately not a lawyer. I don't know the exact codes of pharmacy law verbatum and I gave you a link to PHARMACY LAW and PHARMACY PROTOCOL. If you want to research it for basic/medics in your area... look it up! Im telling you what I know from Standing Orders as a Basic in MY county and The State of California Pharmacy Law. If you don't like what I gave you... tough cookies. I gave you what I KNOW and thats the best response i can give you.

aside from that... have a nice night everyone else.
 
neither EMT's or Paramedics have the necessary expertise to go recommending medications, for patients to go and use at their own discretion, when no medical personnel is hovering over them.
By simply administering oxygen to a patient, an EMT is in fact prescribing that drug for them. O2 is a prescribed drug, that each system's medical director authorizes to be given to certain patients.
There are people out there who do not know the difference between a paramedic and a doctor. As a medical professional, if you were to recommend medications to an uneducated patient, i do believe in some courts of law that could be considered that you prescribed that medication.
 
John E said:
theres nothing in the law/regulation that you quoted that refers to an EMT giving advice when it's been solicited by a patient or did I miss that part?

I would also suggest that the law/regulation that you quote applies to pharmacists and pharmacy technicians who dispense prescription drugs, not to an EMT who's asked a question by a patient. The fact that you're quoting the "Ca Pharmacy Law Book" I believe lends credence to my argument, not to yours.

The county in which I work doesn't prohibit my freedom of speech so far as I know. If someone asks me a question about a legally obtained over the counter medication, I can give my opinion about it. I can't prescribe or administer it.

John E.
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In California, I doubt there is a specific law or regulation forbidding you to advise the use of an OTC medication. However, the law provides that practicing medicine without a license is illegal, and the definition of practicing medicine is loose enough to allow prosecutors to fit a lot of things into that category. While it may never be an issue, if a bad outcome were to come from a -Basic giving advice on an OTC drug, it would not be hard to convince a jury that giving medical advice without a medical license constitutes breaking the law.

Remember that even giving aspirin, while OTC, is still a function delegated to us by our medical director.

Also, while you may not answer to Pharmacists, the laws governing pharmacy may very well apply to you. California law prescribes that only certain types of licensed individuals may recommend a medication, even if it is OTC. Pharmacists and doctors are on that list, but EMTs are not.
 
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Starbase89 said:
I know as a Basic I am not allowed to give medication (aside from very few specified.) If I were to find a kid having an allergic reaction, would it be wrong/out of scope of practice to say "you might want to give him/her some Benadryl." Is that equivalent to giving medication in the eyes of the law?
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We were just discussing this in our last class. Our instructor said ABSOLUTELY NOT, besides the ones that we can administer and assist with, you should NOT risk it, no matter how small. You don't know how the child will react to the medicine, granted it will most likely alleviate the reaction, there's still the possibility of adverse side effects and YOU will be held responsible for it.
 
In South Africa and EMT-B can loose his / her license if they suggest / advise / direct a patient to take any type medication simply because they are not allowed to administer medication.
 
When I've been asked about any meds for a specific condition or if I think someone should seek medication for something, I basically tell the person to check with their physician about whether or not there's a medication that's appropriate for them.
 
Akulahawk said:
When I've been asked about any meds for a specific condition or if I think someone should seek medication for something, I basically tell the person to check with their physician about whether or not there's a medication that's appropriate for them.
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Now that would be the best answer to give. Kudos Akul
 
I've also been known to say that if one medication doesn't work (some take time to take effect and determine efficacy), it's not inappropriate to tell your Doc what's going on. Sometimes, people react to medication differently... so what's appropriate for one person might be completely wrong for another, even with the same disease.

Some stuff works GREAT... but we just don't know entirely well how certain meds interact with other meds and foods and supplements... and so on. Once you get past a few substances, sometimes, nobody knows what will happen.

As to the kudos... thanks! I learned a long time ago to stay away from recommending stuff specifically. Too much trouble can result. For example... if someone's in pain... I'll simply tell them to look into taking pain meds... check with the Doc... and/or consult with a pain management specialist.
 
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