Is EMS designed to attract dramatic people?

VentMonkey

VentMonkey

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No, I don't mean to imply every provider is dramatic, I just can't help but notice how often we see people in the field, in the ED (yes, RN's, techs, etc.), and the like acting just as dramatic as the very patients they complain about.

You know the people: the ones we often gripe about. The ones who bark the loudest in the room, and spin the most on scene. The ones who when working, or prepping to work a code act like they're being filmed for the latest A&E reality action series about "real life heroes".

Yes, I know it's talked about often, and I understand that some may just be newer providers, but I am referring specifically to the not-so-new tools, goobers, and reaper racers who have been going at it "forever" and still act every bit the buffoon as if their life is one big soap opera.

Is it the fact that what we (in theory) deal with "on a daily basis" is what others portray as "emergent heroics"? Again, this is more so in regards to that "veteran" that tells all their war stories to the FNG whose jaw drops on the floor upon hearing the gore. They are the one uppers of the world. They leave out everything that is professional and whole about the job, they lack humility, they're as someone on here loves to say...hacks (great term, BTW).

Finally, do you think that there will come a day---aside from them retiring out---when they will be wiped off the face of the EMS earth, or at the very least the extreme polar opposite end of what would be considered commonplace?

I know restructuring our curriculum gets brought up til the cows come home on here, and clearly it's what would impact this person the most. Either way, a fella can dream can't he? Imagine a world where these folks were non-existent, and in turn neither were their up and coming cronies...
 
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VentMonkey said:
No, I don't mean to imply every provider is dramatic, I just can't help but notice how often we see people in the field, in the ED (yes, RN's, techs, etc.), and the like acting just as dramatic as the very patients they complain about.

You know the people: the ones we often gripe about. The ones who bark the loudest in the room, and spin the most on scene. The ones who when working, or prepping to work a code act like they're being filmed for the latest A&E reality action series about "real life heroes".

Yes, I know it's talked about often, and I understand that some may just be newer providers, but I am referring specifically to the not-so-new tools, goobers, and reaper racers who have been going at it "forever" and still act every bit the buffoon as if their life is one big soap opera.

Is it the fact that what we (in theory) deal with "on a daily basis" is what others portray as "emergent heroics"? Again, this is more so in regards to that "veteran" that tells all their war stories to the FNG whose jaw drops on the floor upon hearing the gore. They are the one uppers of the world. They leave out everything that is professional and whole about the job, they lack humility, they're as someone on here loves to say...hacks (great term, BTW).

Finally, do you think that there will come a day---aside from them retiring out---when they will be wiped off the face of the EMS earth, or at the very least the extreme polar opposite end of what would be considered commonplace?

I know restructuring our curriculum gets brought up til the cows come home on here, and clearly it's what would impact this person the most. Either way, a fella can dream can't he? Imagine a world where these folks were non-existent, and in turn neither were their up and coming cronies...
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The only ones that mostly do not act in such a fashion are those that have outside lives of ems seek knowledge and education. Remain humble, respect themselves and others and as you put humility. Humility is a great tool in life its what grounds us and can often times be the best teacher. Sadly many lack this.

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In my experience, if someone has a star of life tattooed on their body, they will be dramatic.

ETA: i didnt finish my thought.

Just mirroring what was said above. Its typically the people that live and breathe EMS but typically do not take the time to be educated on EBM outside of protocols and think they deserve more than minimum wage because they "save lives".

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I keep saying it... barriers to entry.

Higher educational standards.

Even then, it will not be eliminated. (Case and point: RNs.)

It will reduce the occurance though, dramatically....
^see what I did there^
 
GMCmedic said:
In my experience, if someone has a star of life tattooed on their body, they will be dramatic.

ETA: i didnt finish my thought.

Just mirroring what was said above. Its typically the people that live and breathe EMS but typically do not take the time to be educated on EBM outside of protocols and think they deserve more than minimum wage because they "save lives".

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This is true.
 
GMCmedic said:
In my experience, if someone has a star of life tattooed on their body, they will be dramatic.
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Absolutely, we all know who they are and have at least one at our service, but do they know?

Not that it matters that much I suppose, it's just annoying AF to what I like to refer to as "the collective" on this forum, as I am sure there are many more "collective-type" members that aren't on here.

So to them, and you all, I say let it out; now's your chance. Share stories on this thread of these knob jobs. Tell me what you'd like to see happen. I say keep it loose, but relevant to the thread topic all in the name of the sanity of, well, the collective...

SandpitMedic said:
It will reduce the occurance though, dramatically....
^see what I did there^
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+1 for the play on words.
 
I agree with @SandpitMedic fully. I also think we need to do a few things.
1. When teaching EMS classes if we(EMS community) won't change the standards, at least change the teachers. Teachers usually teach via telling war stories (luckily mine did not), but that makes students want to go out and actively look for something like a "fun or a cool call" to go on.
2. As a community people need to understand that human interaction is key. Example: The attempted suicide call, asking, actively helping, offering your services, and advocating for your patient. All of that may be just as important as running your fancy code, both of which save a life. The news camera's wont follow the first example, but it is just as important which I personally feel people don't see.
3. You have to understand your job. You as an EMT/Medic/ CC whatever are going to people at their worst times, maybe even when somebody is dead, or dies under your care. That's no easy task. People have to understand you can't reaper-race forever. You can't be in the military forever, you cant be a LEO forever. Some jobs just take a larger toll on you then others.

A personal aside: I feel that even if EMS does nothing with education, or whatever else everybody wants to change, if people change their mentality from actively looking for the spotlight, and the camera to putting your nose to the grindstone, working hard doing your job and going home, as a community we would be much better off. People really do take notice of it, when you remove yourself from the spotlight, make everything run smoothly it's absolutely amazing what happens, as everybody's parents have always said "there's no I in team" or "teamwork makes the dreamwork"
 
NomadicMedic said:
Funny, in the PHTLS instructor course we were told to 'relate our own experiences' to keep students interested.

I groaned out loud.
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This actually sounds quite appalling.
 
Funny in my service at least, the culture practically fetishizes "cool under pressure." No higher praise for an experienced medic where I work than unflappable. Experienced medics are patient with new people who get spun and dramatic, but outside that there's very little patience for drama on calls.

As a service as part of some of our patient safety initiatives we've been pushing crew resource management and appropriate closed-loop communication on calls which even more seems to be geared towards dialling back the sort of tension and drama that lead to medical errors.
 
NomadicMedic said:
Funny, in the PHTLS instructor course we were told to 'relate our own experiences' to keep students interested.

I groaned out loud.
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Hopefully your survey of the instructor reflected that sentiment.
 
You bring an interesting outside perspective to this topic, Wolfman. Clearly the definition of EMS as a profession is A) existent, and B) tolerated. It just isn't prevalent anywhere in the contiguous United States that I am aware of.

Thanks for chiming in from The Great White North. I wish this was the case for your peers just below you. I also find it painfully ironic that this is notably where "EMS started", or at least where it seems to have gained most of its popularity.

Ultimately American culture is clearly a large influence on our profession, why? I don't know. Let's keep it (thread topic) going...
 
More sangfroid (or, you know, age and maturity) and more science, that's the solution.


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EpiEMS said:
More sangfroid (or, you know, age and maturity) and more science, that's the solution.
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Absolutely, Ep, but if as @WolfmanHarris points out, it can and does already exist in other systems, albeit outside of The States, why not here universally?

Where does it leave forward thinkers living in the present stuck on the box with such hacks, and posers?

Sure, not all people with cheesy tats are poor providers, but it does fit the stereotype way too often.*

*completely tat-free.
 
You can't change personality types. You can, however, put in place barriers that ensure the caliber of people you hire are matured and able to handle this job. Think of the folks who have been rejected by other agencies or departments (police/fire/whatever) that could care less and are utilizing this as a stepping stone... I'd say probably 75% of EMS folks had coming in or are looking for an exit strategy ...not to mention those who can't get hired elsewhere for legitimate reasons; why should they be allowed to be EMS providers. Stricter background standards should also be a part of barriers to entry.

How about the number of 18-21 year olds who get behind the wheel of the ambulance...I'm not bashing here, I'm just being realistic. You can't take someone with zero life experience that lives with their mom, and expect them to be these hardened professional professionals.... throw in the lights and sirens and you're even more likely to encounter issues. Mind you those 18-21 year olds often are recent high school grads, they have no formal education other than that, and they are not fully developed yet...

Setting educational barriers by proxy sets age limitations, by creating time for folks to have life experience and better prepare them for what the job really is versus what they saw on Nightwatch or something. And even older folks suffer from maturity issues, by no means is it only the age group I identified. Even then, creating a challenge to entry beyond a few simple tests and vocational training will turn out higher quality, more self motivated and dedicated individuals of any age group. (I stand by my belief that 18 year olds have no business driving (manically) a 16,000 pound vehicle with lights and sirens- sorry if that hurts your feels).

A one stop shop that fixes many issues is the education barrier and standards.

People are people... you will never get rid of drama and heightened stress, and excitement on those "exciting" calls. Human nature is an element of this job we must account for.
 
And I don't want any kids or younger folks on here, or PD rejects /hopefuls, or whomever getting all upset.

The reality is this job is the real deal...its dangerous, stressful, and great; it should be viewed as such. Not as a catch-all for people looking for excitement or wanting to help people. Not everyone is cut out for it, nor should anyone be able to easily get into it simply because they want to.

The barriers should be in place not only to better EMS as a profession, but to protect EMS workers, protect patients, and protect our image from those unfit to hold such a position.

If you want to help people and do something that makes you feel like you're giving back then go down to the soup kitchen and volunteer.

This is a profession. For professionals.
 
SandpitMedic said:
And I don't want any kids or younger folks on here, or PD rejects /hopefuls, or whomever getting all upset.

The reality is this job is the real deal... and it should be views as such. Not everyone is cut out for it, nor should anyone be able to easily get into it simply because they want to.

The barriers should be in place not only to better EMS as a profession, but to protect EMS workers, protect patients, and protect our image from those unfit to hold such a position.
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It is what it is, as you stated your post above this...human nature.

Sure, to err is human, but the stereotypes we're referring to here is decades of tradition built on flase premonitions. There has to be ways to deal for the poor schlub stuck outnumbered by the majority aside from "finding another job".
 
Don't give us too much credit, I still work with a bunch of children. I see a huge parallel in the types of "characters" our jobs attract and the dark, twisted humour and the like. I just think our professional culture here was shaped by our own bad influences too, but from that has come this goal that the medics we most want to be like, are some of the smartest, calmest, most affable people we've ever met.

Consider that our system in this province only introduced ALS of any sort in the late 1970's in Toronto and the origins of the current PCP scope only go back to the late 90's. The Program Coordinators at both of my two college programs (PCP and ACP) were both among the first ALS trained in the Province ever; yet also held Master Degrees and remained current on the science and literature. The world is still so small that while we can't really model after THE original Paramedics (who made the biggest steps to professionalize us), we're still working with and modelling after their students. It those early Paramedics who stepped over from the old Emergency Medical Attendant that set the tone and I think it along with rapidly rising education standards has created this professional culture.

Edit: Wrong "to/too/two" couldn't let that stand.
 
VentMonkey said:
It is what it is, as you stated your post above this...human nature.

Sure, to err is human, but the stereotypes we're referring to here is decades of tradition built on flase premonitions. There has to be ways to deal for the poor schlub stuck outnumbered by the majority aside from "finding another job".
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True, I feel I may have strayed from your original intent of the post.
However, these goobs would be less prevalent if we had such barriers as I've described.

Ever since Johnny & Roy there have been false premonitions and utterly incorrect expectations by new folks who wanted to be "those guys."

The hero types are always going to be out there, whether wackers with their blue Galls flashing visor lights or at any ambulance company. When you hire a bunch of children with zero life experience other than Snapchat and Fakebook... what do you expect? Even experience as a provider doesn't preclude you from racing the reaper for a living... look at Nightwatch for cryin' out loud.

Cop movies and shows demonstrate the same fictitious expectations, yet the police departments don't seem to have the issues we do... for one reason, barriers to entry.


Edit to add: if you had to google Johnny & Roy you better quit this **** and go work at Walmart or something. No excuse.
 
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SandpitMedic said:
Cop movies and shows demonstrate the same fictitious expectations, yet the police departments don't seem to have the issues we do... for one reason, barriers to entry.
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BINGO! I hadn't thought of that either in Ontario's case.

Public College programs are over subscribed and competitive. For PCP school I had a Bachelors and high school marks in the 85-90% range (they look here) and didn't get in everywhere I applied. Approximately 4-500 ppl were applying when I did PCP school in 2007-9 for the 45 spots. We had attrition of about 50% of the program by the end graduating 18. That fluctuates. There are Private Colleges that are of varying degrees of quality and renown that while not oversubscribed, do charge much much more.

A couple rounds ago I aid with my services recruitment. We had 700 graduates and working Paramedics applying for 30 positions. As placement in programs got more competitive and career became more attractive for high performing individuals, the barrier for employment went up. Competitive admissions meant university or college educated before entering the program, attrition meant more of those students represented in graduates meaning applicants for competitive spots start showing more and more Paramedics with degrees and additional experience and education applying which drive up the quality of the hiring pool.

This with the already existing culture from the early generation, who by embracing the experiment of advancing the field, were themselves ambitious and smart, combined to create the calm culture we have.
 
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