I'm Suspended.... Or am I?

MusicMedic said:
and Vent, its not that fact that they held them accountable, its more a combination of everything, the OP posted another thread before this explaining about her problems with this company and their rigs as well as the paydays (checks bouncing, Missing Days)
and IMHO a company that lets their Units operate with nail in their tire isnt the best company...

Ive also been to this companies headquarters for an interview before and it really did seem shady
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Even the more reason the OP should know the company's policies and have careful documentation of any incident that would leave him/her holding the bag of blame. If the keys are missing, notify the supervisor immediately and even have a written incident form prepared. If there is a nail in your tire, prepare a written incident form. Leave a paper trail and apply them to the letter of the policies outlined in the company's P&P manual. Accountability is two way street but if the EMTs don't see that, don't expect the company to. They may expect very little as it is from their employees and often they aren't proven any different.

MusicMedic said:
Unfortunately Ambo companies are dime a dozen here in Southern California
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EMTs are also a dime a dozen and for every position that opens up, several dozen more applicants will be there attempting to fill it. The ambulance companies know there will be many more new minted 110 hour EMTs being churned out in the mills every month and more flocking to sign up after each episode of "Trauma".
 
That is very true, the OP should have documented everything, as they say "if its not written down it didnt happen"

and yes EMT's are also dime a dozen here in CA, i remember when i applied to pacific ambulance, i had to fight for one of 8 spots in pool of 38 Interviewees (im sure there was alot more who applied)

needless to say i failed :-)

and yes unfourtunatly the reason these shady companies stay open because there are a 1000 emts willing to jump into these positions, until there is a less of a demand (which wont be for a while) these companies will stay open
 
CAOX3 said:
Small business owner :rolleyes: I have an Idea you worry about him.

Im worried about the person who just lost a days pay through no fault of her own, is put in unsafe working situations and subject to unfair disciplinary action.

But that wouldnt concern you now would it, she can just go get another job right?
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Hey, anytime someone faces loss of income due to discipline issues, it sucks, I know..im not saying that Im not concerned about her.

I would encourage the OP to look for other employment if she isnt happy...but people on here need to remember there are three sides to every story... her side... her employers side, and the truth is in the middle...something that I've had to learn in law enforcement especially.

Her post does make it seem like her employer is the worst place in the world to work.. and if the events as she has written them are factual.. then yes, I feel bad for her.

On the other hand, what we dont know is whether or not she has lost 9 sets of keys before.. or has been late habitually, or has otherwise cause her own demise in this organization....people are posting based on her word alone.

Either way, whether this was just progressive discipline that reached the point of suspension, or whether this was a first offense, I would encourage her to remedy the situation, by either sitting down with her supervisors and talking things over.. or moving to a different organization that is a better fit for her... mainly because she does not seem happy there.

Also, to address your comment about the small business owner...

Small business is the backbone of our economy at this point...and small business as a whole employs a very large percentage of our working adults in the US..if we start to lose more small business, or we continue to suffocate small business with things like higher taxes and unions, then our economy will continue to suffer. Unions do exactly that.. they suffocate and kill anything they get involved in....and expect special treatment.

Case in point.. the health care bill that has been front and center... when Obama decided to tax health care plans over 24k a year, the unions threw a fit because they are one of the largest groups who benefit from the 24k a year plus plans.. so they went to the President and whined, and he caved to their special interests, and changed things so that UNIONS and ONLY UNIONS would be exempt from taxes on those health care plans.. they expected special treatment, mainly because they donated HUGE amounts of money to get Obama elected.

Another case in point.. and this is an example not of a small business that the Unions killed.. it was a huge multinational multibillion dollar industry.. the auto industry.. they have all but destroyed the big three automakers with increasing salary demands, increasing benefit demands, and insane programs like "job banks" that cost the autoworkers millions of dollars a year, dont benefit the automakers, and is just designed to keep the unions pockets filled with dues paying members...

this same situation of collapse happens with small business, it just happens on a much shorter timeline...it took so long for it to catch up with the big three because they were so large and were able to absorb the cost for so long...think medicare/social security...we pay out more in benefits than we take in right now...which is what the automakers had to do for years.. and the house of cards finally collapsed!

So, the point of all this ... is that yes, i am concerned about the young lady that lost a day of wages, but im also concerned about keeping all of her other coworkers employed.
 
This post is more for general knowledge in dealing with IFT companies. This could also be applied to any employer, I suppose.

Look into pre paid legal. Find out if your monthly payment will cover legal representation and such. It's usually 25-30 dollars a month, and covers all kinds of situations that require otherwise expensive legal counsel.

These private companies bank on the assumption that most of their employees are young, naive, and will generally not have the experience, funds, or knowledge to fight management when they try to get over on you.

I've seen it time and time again. Management gives favoritism towwards certain people, and punish others harshly. They fabricate new policies on the fly to address certain issues without properly avising everyone. What happens is that they eventually come across someone who knows what they're doing, and get a legal b**** slap from their attorney. Then their SOP's and policies change accordingly, and that favoritism crap is put to a stop. Usually when faced with competent legal representation management will back off, and will likely never bother you again.

I have a few words of advice:

First, advise dispatch of any issues via a taped landline, not by nextel, which is unrecorded. This should include advising of an unchecked vehicle if getting a call right away, any pt care issues, mechanical issues, delay on the floor due to staff, PPW, no bed available, etc. Make a note on your PCR regarding a L/L pt contact with the time if applicable. If you speak to a supervisor, it might be a good idea to advise dispatch via L/L regarding their orders.

Fill out incident reports for everything, and make your own copies before turning them in. same for PCR's, as someone may attempt to alter the incedent report or PCR.

Same thing for mechanical issues. Management may try to stick you with the tow bill, saying that you could've driven the vehicle. In fact, you may be ordered to drive an unsafe vehicle. On the other hand, they may try to stick you with a share of the repair bill if you drive a vehicle that is unsafe. They'll feign ignorance to any knowledge of the matter. Use the radio and a L/L.
 
46Young, i am not sure if you have ever use prepaid legal but i have. I would not advice anyone from buying the service because in my eyes it's a scam. California is at will state, so OP can be fired at anytime for almost anything as long as it's not one of the protective reasons.
 
FLEMTP said:
Also, to address your comment about the small business owner...

Small business is the backbone of our economy at this point...and small business as a whole employs a very large percentage of our working adults in the US..if we start to lose more small business, or we continue to suffocate small business with things like higher taxes and unions, then our economy will continue to suffer. Unions do exactly that.. they suffocate and kill anything they get involved in....and expect special treatment.

Case in point.. the health care bill that has been front and center... when Obama decided to tax health care plans over 24k a year, the unions threw a fit because they are one of the largest groups who benefit from the 24k a year plus plans.. so they went to the President and whined, and he caved to their special interests, and changed things so that UNIONS and ONLY UNIONS would be exempt from taxes on those health care plans.. they expected special treatment, mainly because they donated HUGE amounts of money to get Obama elected.

Another case in point.. and this is an example not of a small business that the Unions killed.. it was a huge multinational multibillion dollar industry.. the auto industry.. they have all but destroyed the big three automakers with increasing salary demands, increasing benefit demands, and insane programs like "job banks" that cost the autoworkers millions of dollars a year, dont benefit the automakers, and is just designed to keep the unions pockets filled with dues paying members...

this same situation of collapse happens with small business, it just happens on a much shorter timeline...it took so long for it to catch up with the big three because they were so large and were able to absorb the cost for so long...think medicare/social security...we pay out more in benefits than we take in right now...which is what the automakers had to do for years.. and the house of cards finally collapsed!

So, the point of all this ... is that yes, i am concerned about the young lady that lost a day of wages, but im also concerned about keeping all of her other coworkers employed.
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FYI, the big three destroyed themselves by being wasteful, inefficient, and most of all did not do enough innovating to compete in a foreign market.
And it wasn't the unions who decided it might be a good idea to destroy the US economy. Unions are there to protect workers because obviously our government can't do that. SOME unions are bad; some are good. The idea was to pass some of the bizillion dollars of profit to the workers who were....well.....doing a lot of the work. This is especially important when we realized that overall industrial output increases like Moore's Law for decades despite increases in layoffs while workers' wages remain mostly stagnant in comparison.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not really that big on unions especially when a person pressing a button on a sheet metal press for 8 hours can make $60,000/yr while pilots and elementary school teachers live on food stamps, but this country isn't big on protecting workers.
 
Update!!!!!!

Ok so I got fired today....

To answer all of your questions. I have documented every wrong finding with a rig. It was company policy to fill out a ending report at the end of every shift and there was a box for things that needed to be fixed on the ambulance. You bet I was the one that always filled those in. I even refused to check out a rig that had exhaust problems, and documented it. I have pictures and videos of problems also.

Someone stated that they didnt know if I've lost keys before. NEVER! The keys ended up being found in a couch cushion because the crew before us were on 24s and took a nap and they fell out. Like I said they never were transfers to us. We did report it to a supervisor. The owners do not have backups which is dumb.

I've never been late, never missed a shift. If my supervisor called me to pick up a shift I did. Once I worked 12 straight days.

Anyways the operations manager said the reason they were firing me was because we didn't properly check out our rig. Mind you we couldnt check it out because we didnt have keys and they knew this. Ever since this guy came on things have been worse. He worked for Doctors and Lynch and I havent heard one nice thing about him.

When they were handing me my finally check I mentioned there was no sense of quality improvement. We learn about this in EMT school.

*side note* someone was fired for losing a gas card on wednesday. The 2 people who didnt have the gurney are still working. 4 people I was hired with put their two weeks in. And finally they are being reported to OSHA.
 
looker said:
46Young, i am not sure if you have ever use prepaid legal but i have. I would not advice anyone from buying the service because in my eyes it's a scam. California is at will state, so OP can be fired at anytime for almost anything as long as it's not one of the protective reasons.
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I haven't used prepaid legal personally. I know they're handy for consultation and maybe some legal documants. I don't know much otherwise. What did you find out about them regarding scams?

Is "at will" the same as "right to work"? I've worked in right to work states, and also for a non union hospital in NY for five years. I had to sign the paper that says "You may terminate your employment at any time, for any reason, and we reserve the right to do the same". I do know that you need a paper trail to fire someone regardless. The employer still needs to have a valid reason to let someone go.
 
Right to work= No closed union shops

At will= employment can be terminated at any time by either party.
 
Bloom-IUEMT said:
FYI, the big three destroyed themselves by being wasteful, inefficient, and most of all did not do enough innovating to compete in a foreign market.
And it wasn't the unions who decided it might be a good idea to destroy the US economy. Unions are there to protect workers because obviously our government can't do that. SOME unions are bad; some are good. The idea was to pass some of the bizillion dollars of profit to the workers who were....well.....doing a lot of the work. This is especially important when we realized that overall industrial output increases like Moore's Law for decades despite increases in layoffs while workers' wages remain mostly stagnant in comparison.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not really that big on unions especially when a person pressing a button on a sheet metal press for 8 hours can make $60,000/yr while pilots and elementary school teachers live on food stamps, but this country isn't big on protecting workers.
Click to expand...

In addition to that, EMS, fire, and police unions aren't the same as private unions. Apples and oranges. It's different when it's illegal to strike. There are no lockouts lasting several months and such. Emergency services can't just walk off the job or be outsourced to India either. Also, unions in right to work states don't have collective bargaining, and make gains through political influence and effective lobbying. Membership isn't mandatory, either.

My union has done a fantastic job of safeguarding our current position from those that are jealous and resentful of what we have. That alone is worth the cost of my dues. Not to mention that we make 30-40% more than the best paying depts below us and in the Carolinas, where they have to put in more years for retirement, at a lower multiplier, having to accept policies and SOP's designed to be advantageous to the employer, and being powerless to fight or change them.
 
emtCourt31 said:
Ok so I got fired today....

To answer all of your questions. I have documented every wrong finding with a rig. It was company policy to fill out a ending report at the end of every shift and there was a box for things that needed to be fixed on the ambulance. You bet I was the one that always filled those in. I even refused to check out a rig that had exhaust problems, and documented it. I have pictures and videos of problems also.

Someone stated that they didnt know if I've lost keys before. NEVER! The keys ended up being found in a couch cushion because the crew before us were on 24s and took a nap and they fell out. Like I said they never were transfers to us. We did report it to a supervisor. The owners do not have backups which is dumb.

I've never been late, never missed a shift. If my supervisor called me to pick up a shift I did. Once I worked 12 straight days.

Anyways the operations manager said the reason they were firing me was because we didn't properly check out our rig. Mind you we couldnt check it out because we didnt have keys and they knew this. Ever since this guy came on things have been worse. He worked for Doctors and Lynch and I havent heard one nice thing about him.

When they were handing me my finally check I mentioned there was no sense of quality improvement. We learn about this in EMT school.

*side note* someone was fired for losing a gas card on wednesday. The 2 people who didnt have the gurney are still working. 4 people I was hired with put their two weeks in. And finally they are being reported to OSHA.
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WTF? At least you got a check for your last two weeks. Assuming it doesn't bounce. Maybe don't mention them on any future applications.
 
emtCourt31 said:
Ok so I got fired today....

To answer all of your questions. I have documented every wrong finding with a rig. It was company policy to fill out a ending report at the end of every shift and there was a box for things that needed to be fixed on the ambulance. You bet I was the one that always filled those in. I even refused to check out a rig that had exhaust problems, and documented it. I have pictures and videos of problems also.

Someone stated that they didnt know if I've lost keys before. NEVER! The keys ended up being found in a couch cushion because the crew before us were on 24s and took a nap and they fell out. Like I said they never were transfers to us. We did report it to a supervisor. The owners do not have backups which is dumb.

I've never been late, never missed a shift. If my supervisor called me to pick up a shift I did. Once I worked 12 straight days.

Anyways the operations manager said the reason they were firing me was because we didn't properly check out our rig. Mind you we couldnt check it out because we didnt have keys and they knew this. Ever since this guy came on things have been worse. He worked for Doctors and Lynch and I havent heard one nice thing about him.

When they were handing me my finally check I mentioned there was no sense of quality improvement. We learn about this in EMT school.

*side note* someone was fired for losing a gas card on wednesday. The 2 people who didnt have the gurney are still working. 4 people I was hired with put their two weeks in. And finally they are being reported to OSHA.
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It seems like they are exploiting the fact that there is a Influx of EMT and so they fire anyone that dosnt agree with them..

well start looking for a job, youll have to explain in your interviews about why you got fired if they bring it up, be honest...

about the rigs not working right, i would call up CHP tommarow explain to them that the rigs are not in operable condition. It seems to me that the company isnt doing much to fix the rigs..

heres the inspection checklist for CHP
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/291785/...-FOR-SELF-CERTIFICATION-OF-VEHICLE-COMPLIANCE

Lucky at my company, when we report a mechanical problem or any problem with the vehicle they immediately fix it, we have an awesome In House Mechanic, hes always fixing something....

but alas it seems to me that it might be a blessing in disguise that u got fired from them... run far away from them as possible...

and im am SOOO GLAD i didnt get hired by them :-)


P.S people stop making this thread an argument about Union V. Non-Union
 
Hmm... I'd kinda of be interested to see if anyone currently works at Lynch is on here. If someone that used to be at Lynch is now the ops manager there and a bunch of other upper management is now at CRA in Riverside, I wonder if things have gotten better since they've cleaned house.
 
looker said:
If you think OSHA will you do anything about it, you're wrong. This basically should either be handled by chp or ladot
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I agree
 
46Young said:
I haven't used prepaid legal personally. I know they're handy for consultation and maybe some legal documants. I don't know much otherwise. What did you find out about them regarding scams?

Is "at will" the same as "right to work"? I've worked in right to work states, and also for a non union hospital in NY for five years. I had to sign the paper that says "You may terminate your employment at any time, for any reason, and we reserve the right to do the same". I do know that you need a paper trail to fire someone regardless. The employer still needs to have a valid reason to let someone go.
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Consulation with prepaid legal is free, however understand that you might wait as long as 8 hours before a lawyer calls you back. The reason why i call them scam is because while they say they will write as many letters as it takes in reality that is not the case.
 
MusicMedic said:
It seems like they are exploiting the fact that there is a Influx of EMT and so they fire anyone that dosnt agree with them..

well start looking for a job, youll have to explain in your interviews about why you got fired if they bring it up, be honest...

about the rigs not working right, i would call up CHP tommarow explain to them that the rigs are not in operable condition. It seems to me that the company isnt doing much to fix the rigs..

heres the inspection checklist for CHP
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/291785/...-FOR-SELF-CERTIFICATION-OF-VEHICLE-COMPLIANCE

Lucky at my company, when we report a mechanical problem or any problem with the vehicle they immediately fix it, we have an awesome In House Mechanic, hes always fixing something....

but alas it seems to me that it might be a blessing in disguise that u got fired from them... run far away from them as possible...

and im am SOOO GLAD i didnt get hired by them :-)


P.S people stop making this thread an argument about Union V. Non-Union
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Whenever a thread regarding the employee gettting mistreated by management, the "U" word will inevitably be introduced into the discussion at some point.
 
looker said:
If you think OSHA will you do anything about it, you're wrong. This basically should either be handled by chp or ladot
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Yep. A lot of OSHA complaints are investigated by the reported agency and reported back to OSHA themselves. I've seen 2 OSHA complaints at different places (both, to be honest, were pretty lame) and the response to both was the organization just posted a rebuttal and that was it.
 
VentMedic said:
EMTs are also a dime a dozen and for every position that opens up, several dozen more applicants will be there attempting to fill it. The ambulance companies know there will be many more new minted 110 hour EMTs being churned out in the mills every month and more flocking to sign up after each episode of "Trauma".
Click to expand...

Which is why we need higher education standards. As I have stated in previous posts I think EMT should be a 2 year program and Paramedic a 4 year degree.
 
fortsmithman said:
Which is why we need higher education standards. As I have stated in previous posts I think EMT should be a 2 year program and Paramedic a 4 year degree.
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What you are proposing will not happen anytime soon if ever. The problem is that EMT is a trade degree. People that are going in to it do not want to be in school, learning english, math etc.
 
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